Your Voice: House building limit holds back Tracy
by Scott Hurban, Tracy
Apr 12, 2013 | 3793 views | 72 72 comments | 102 102 recommendations | email to a friend | print
EDITOR,

A recent report to our city stated that Tracy might have the opportunity to be a satellite Silicon Valley and provide our children and citizens with thousands of high-paying jobs.

Many years back, prior to the real estate bubble bursting, the voters of Tracy decided to limit the number of house permits given a year to 600, so that the city could spend more time and resources to get businesses to locate within the cities sphere of influence.

At least this was the reasoning. This is Tracy’s fatal dilemma.

Technology expert, Vivek Wadhwa, told the city that to make Tracy a hub of good paying jobs requires the city to significantly increase its stock of homes. This makes sense, as highly skilled people want nice homes to live in that are near their place of employment. In a town that has increasingly been hostile to housing development, I seriously doubt that Tracy will ever become the high-tech place that it could be.

I can remember many letters to the Press years ago vilifying developers as greedy profiteers who wanted to exploit our city and ruin its small-town feeling. I doubt a tear was shed by many when these developers went bankrupt and thousands of construction workers lost their jobs. This was the price of preserving our “peaceful” town.

Progress will be made and other cities will become places were high-tech industry will thrive. However, I seriously doubt that it will be here in Tracy or in most of California. Sadly, in this town and in this state, true progress (building new things) is a dirty word.

• Editor’s note: Measure A was passed in 2000 by Tracy voters in a general election. According to the law, a maximum of 750 residential growth allotments and a 10-year average of 600 residential growth allotments can be distributed each year by the city. A residential growth allotment is needed to obtain a building permit.
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pressreader12345
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May 04, 2013
Mark C. Did the Rubublican party give you official orders to meet Tom B at Four Corners and dump him or was it your own idea?
backinblack
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May 03, 2013
Shelly, I agree with the bulk of your comment which starts with "I don't see any problem with trying to reach an "idealistic" goal" so once again you and I seem to have reached common ground. We obviously are not going to agree as to the extent Measure A has affected the business climate and overall growth in Tracy and that's fine, at least you and I showed open minded people can at least meet in the middle inspite of differing views & beliefs.

LT wrote: "Look, I know that Measure A was a Republican but I don't care."

What the heck does that have to do with anything? We the people voted Measure A in, it was not in the hands of the mayor or city council at that time. You can also blame the Connoly's all you want, we didn't live here at the time so I don't care about them one way or the other. Bottom line as with most things in life it mainly comes down to we the people.

As Shelly rightly states, paraphrasing, if you don't like it vote in politicians who will do a better job and hold them accountable. This where you miss the boat. A A A A is all I hear from certain folks, and only after I brought it up did you I'm sure begrudgingly admit there's other factors.

LooongTimer
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May 03, 2013
Look, nobody disagrees with the American voting system. I have already said we have to live with Measure A to the letter of the law. Nowhere did I say otherwise. I have pointed out there are other factors. I have pointed out the problems with Measure A and said it does not matter if a (R) or a (D) wrote it. I never mentioned any names. I voted for it, but it doesn't mean we have to agree with a system when it does nothing for us. One of our freedoms in America is the right to vote. Then vote. Another is the right to point it out when there are problems. That is not being myopic. The way I understand it that's called being a concerned citizen in your community. An American.
shelly13
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May 02, 2013
Idealistic and socialist? Wth? Smartgrowthamerica.org. i think smart growth is better than simply reducing rda's with no other growth plan in place. Also wouldnt being a community activist who wants smart and reaponsible growth that addresses all aspects of a city such as homes, business, ammenities, infrastructure etc be a good thing??? Let me answer that..yes. For those who dont see that i think you may have been bedfellows of the Connollys and cannot be objective.
shelly13
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May 02, 2013
Also what is wrong with trying to create a city that is as close to an ideally perfect city as possible? At least look at and learn from other cities who have done it right. No city is perfect but Tracy has some catching up to do. I still believe Measure A and council/mayoral decisions of the past several years have hampered our city's progress. Throw that in with the failing economy and we had the perfect storm that stunted our growth.
backinblack
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May 03, 2013
"Idealistic and socialist?"

Yep, and after visiting the site and reading through everything, idealistic beyond question applies and I still maintain much of their agenda smacks of socialism.

I don't know if you have read through their agenda as thoroughly as I did but I saw a lot of references to government programs. I also saw a lot about affordable housing - section 8 anyone, affordable transportation, etc., along with mentions of subsidies from guess who? That's right, the government.

Look, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with being idealistic. My issue is LT yaking about slow growth idealism while not being open minded enough to admit what's quite obvious to anyone with a clue - smart growth is at least equally idealistic, and in my opinion more so.

Are you going to walk the same myopic path as LT? I hope not as I give you much more credit for being open minded.
shelly13
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May 03, 2013
I don't see any problem with trying to reach an "idealistic" goal. I think we all want this city to be better. I think we all know it can be better. OK maybe this organization has some policy that you do not agree with but they also have some really good ideas. I personally think some Fed programs are good and others not so much. I would have to read all of their material before making my final opinion.

But you cannot tell me that you don't see that some type of smart growth is better than none. Simply put, that is my point. I think we would have done better as a city with more of a smart growth plan that addressed many aspects of the city rather than Measure A only. Plus, again, many who have had dealing with the Connolly's know the truth behind the Measure.....Right or wrong I believe from the people I have spoken to (who I believe to be credible) that there was in fact another agenda behind it.

So we can agree to disagree on Measure A but I think we can come together and agree that this city can do better. To do that we need to put forth ideas and vote into office persons with vision.
LooongTimer
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May 03, 2013
Myopic is being able to only see one side. We have lived with Measure A and seen its sides. The good the bad and the ugly

We have to live with Measure A to the letter of the law. Not because it works, but because we are stuck with it. Now, instead of labeling others "myopic" why not look at alternatives. Not all smart growth needs to be shoving liberalism on you. There are even a few conservatives that embrace smart growth alternatives. Measure A didn't work. The smart thing to do is not to hold on to failed programs like Measure A. If Pelisi held on to an ideal dream that doesn't work I would not call her on it just the same. Our previous congressman said he supported the vets, yet it took him till the end of his tenure in our district to get off his duff. Look, if things don't work out I'm willing to say so.
LooongTimer
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May 03, 2013
Look, I know that Measure A was a Republican but I don't care. It didn't work. It failed. It was for political gain. It screwed Tracy. Time to move on.
shelly13
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May 03, 2013
I think we can say that Measure A was somewhat myopic:)
LooongTimer
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May 02, 2013
Make yourself two lists.

When you get to the bottom of both lists you see a couple of things that stand out.

Measure A, which did nothing to limit RGA's (because economic factors did that). And you ask what is it there for. And nobody knows.

You also see plans for your businesses growth may be impacted by no growth laws. Measure A.

You also recognize the anti business climate that Measure A created. Opponents of growth see only black and white in order to protect their political interests.

You also read the paper and see nobody talking about smart growth. Just idealistic notions about no growth.
backinblack
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May 02, 2013
"You also read the paper and see nobody talking about smart growth. Just idealistic notions about no growth."

i·de·al·ism (-d-lzm)

n.

1. The act or practice of envisioning things in an ideal form.

From Shelly which I'm pretty sure was a copy & paste from some unknown source, in part:

"Its goals are to achieve a unique sense of community and place; expand the range of transportation, employment, and housing choices; equitably distribute the costs and benefits of development;"

"Smart Growth" emerged in the early 1990's, driven by "new guard" urban planners, architects, developers, community activists, and historic preservationists"

Please explain how community activists are not idealogues? If anything they are amongst the most radical out there. Please explain how the entire goal of smart growth is not idealistic - it actually smacks of socialism and dreams of the collective.

Let's say for the sake of argument slow growth is idealistic, unless one is deaf, dumb, & blind smart growth is at least equally idealistic, and in my opinion at worst a dream of an unattainable utopian society.

Next.

LooongTimer
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May 02, 2013
Make yourself two lists. Smart growth and no growth.

You keep the side of the paper that says no growth and throw the other one away.

That's idealism.
backinblack
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May 02, 2013
sagitarius, A friendly tip of the day for you, signage is an important item on the list of things a business will look into when considering a location. The importance may vary depending on the type of business but it's nonetheless an important factor for many.

Going back about 25 years I had a business located in Fremont and got to a point where I needed a larger building. While searching I almost moved out of Fremont due to arguing with the city over the type of signage they allowed at that time.

Bottom line, I don't want to say it's the end all be all but signage issues can definitely be a deterrent to a business choosing a new location.

Ok LT, show up with another poor attempt at refuting facts and first hand knowledge of how things work. I can hardly wait.
sagitarius
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May 02, 2013
I'm tired of the carp. Most of the M-A supporters cite restrictions on signage as a business deterrent. I happen to appreciate the look of the downtown in the last several years. I'm glad this city has some common sense signage rules. M-A never did anything for Tracy. It was a scare tactic for to chase away business.
LooongTimer
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May 01, 2013
You ask. What part of restaurants are just one example don't you get?

Well first I am not opposed to warehouse jobs. I did give better examples of businesses that would create restaurant jobs.

You have idealistic notions and horrible examples that would never even approximate smart growth. Why is it not a good example? The local dealers have private parking and go right back to Naglee for lunch where they would have bought lunch anyway. That's not creating new jobs. And many of the out of town dealers drive right out of town after buying smokes.

You don't need a time machine to see that.
backinblack
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May 01, 2013
LT & pressreader, What part of restaurants are just one example don't you get?

LT, interesting you brought up the auction. I was in the car business for 12 years so I know first hand the auctions have cafeteria's so there's not really a need for dealers or employees to go to a local restaurant, fast food or otherwise.

Also, industrial areas usually don't have restaurants in the immediate area but have you ever heard of a little thing called a car? Again, I can tell you as fact my employees would often drive a couple of miles to get lunch at local eating establishments or stop on the way to or from a jobsite.

Going back to the auction and my point about residual benefits, I suggest you go talk to the owners of the gas stations right down the road from the auction. I guarantee the auction helps their business tremendously. Here's another first hand fact for you, most of the cars at the auction have little gas and many are driven out rather than going out on transports. Guess where the drivers stop first? That's right, to get gas, and oh yea, they may also purchase food, soda, cigarettes, etc while they are fueling up thereby greatly benefiting those establishments.Next

backinblack
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May 01, 2013
pressreader, By the way, try picking up a phone book, an online directory, or as I do for a living issuing an insurance policy, you'll find out these days "fast food joints" are considered restaurants.

Thank you for playing.
LooongTimer
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May 01, 2013
If anyone else had used a bad example I would have challenged them just as well.

There is a well known car auction in town that draws dealers from both valleys. Adding to that there are dozens of surrounding warehouses. In stark contrast there really aren't many restaurants.

Now if you had said a college or a myriad of other businesses I may have agreed with your point. But there are buffets in town that serve more dinners in an entire evening than an average warehouse worker will spend in lunches for an entire career.

Ornley_Gumfudgen
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May 02, 2013
Looong Timer

Actually it seems that most patronize th roach coach. Now if that driver lives in Tracy th sales tax frum those transactions should eventually come back ta Tracy after th state get's it's share.

An, as someone pointed out, Amazon, selling thangs out of th proposed warehouse, will be collectin an depositin sales tax on th items they sell.

Delivery drivers also will be spendin monies, which also equates to sales taxes, as they come in an out of Tracy ta service th warehouse. Granted, thairs more ta a healthy business community than just warehouses but warehouses and thair operation are a piece of that pie. When one has a difficult time because of th overall business climate, which touches on Measure A issues, it has a negative effect on other types of business that may desire ta relocate here.

"But there are buffets in town that serve more dinners in an entire evening than an average warehouse worker will spend in lunches for an entire career."

Somewhat an erroneous comment if you ask me. First of all, $11.00 lunches are not somethang th average warehouse worker is gonna go fer. But a fast food place like McDonalds will attract that type of business.

Additionally, if ya consider $11.00 per day, five days a week an 50 weeks per year, an then extend it fer 20 years, a reasonable career time, yer gonna accumulate $55,000 an that assumes a static price of $11.00 a day fer 20 years.

Can you site any buffet or restaurant that grosses $55,000 in an entire evenin? Didn't thank so. Wanna choose a better example as I personally don't believe that any food service joint in this area of th state that can boast that type of gross income in one evenin.

Ornley_Gumfudgen
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May 02, 2013
LooongTimer

Fergot ta add, "If anyone else had used a bad example I would have challenged them just as well."

Consider yer self challenged on yer presentation of yer bad example.

Ya also didn't mention, or overlooked, that people usually attempt ta live close ta whair they work, although we do have a lot of commuters.

I wonder what th percentage of Amazon employees that choose ta settle themselves, an thair families, in Tracy? That will have a positive tax revenue impact fer Tracy as well.

"In stark contrast there really aren't many restaurants."

Question: How many restaurants do you wanna have ta service a community of roughly 84,000 souls? "Many" is rather a vague number, isn't it?

Read more: Tracy Press - Your Voice House building limit holds back Tracy

LooongTimer
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May 02, 2013
We will not find a buffet that grosses even half of that in one day. It is true to say that more people equates to more hungry mouths to feed. When we look at businesses we don't want to pit one type of business against another, so I tried to soften it with a little humor. Fact is, not everybody wants a warehouse job, although I'm not opposed to warehouse jobs because I put myself through college working at a few. I do believe we could have more choices without Measure A. I also don't seriously believe warehouse workers starve themselves. I didn't.
backinblack
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May 01, 2013
Hey Ornley, I'm glad you jumped in, you and I may not agree across the board here but at least I know you have risked your backside by owning a business so I lend greater credence to your view than others who apparently have no clue.

By the way, thanks for throwing in what I meant to mention to Cody but missed doing,

"Warehouses don't generate tax revenue? What about th taxes thair employees pay not ta mention property taxes an taxes they pay ta keep th place runnin?"

Exactly.

1)" Trader Joe's didn't come here fer several reasons larned by contactin thair corporate offices an askin em."

Exactly, several reasons, not just A.

Again, in my opinion there are too many other factors involved to lay as much blame on A as certain people are doing here. It's a fact to anyone with common sense there's no way to state as absolute where we'd be without A as far as business development goes - see the several reasons part to support this point.

Once again, as with the 08 stimulus there is no way, I repeat no way - sans owning a time machine, to say with absolute certainty where we'd be today without A. Anyone who tries to do so is foolish.

pressreader12345
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May 01, 2013
Hogwash. For starters we would have a swimming pool outside of Tracy Unified School District's swimming pools.
CobyWasHere
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May 01, 2013
Thanks for catching that. I meant to say sales tax. Target would not have generated sales tax. But Amazon will because it is a fulfillment center. So, just because Target went to Manteca it's not the end of the world. And Measure A would be more likely to chase off high end restaurants.

Question. Didn't the guy who championed Measure A, also chase off site 300, the swim center, and the gateway business park. If so, we got the screws. Tracy Tomorrow flat out told the voters if you vote for Measure A you will lose the gateway business park. In the end, we also lost the swimming park, and damm near lost the Carnegie park too. If it hadn't been for the Carnegie Warriors who fought bravely against the onslaught the park would have succommed too.

Ornley_Gumfudgen
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May 02, 2013
CobyWasHere

"If it hadn't been for the Carnegie Warriors who fought bravely against the onslaught the park would have succommed too."

Hope th Warriors don't get complacent because I am quite sure they will make another attempt an th reason fer thair continued attempts is precisely why Measure A was written by them in th first place.

Th passage of Measure A, in my opinion, (I can have one like others can't I, has had an will have a long lasting negative effect on th Tracy Community.

Measure A by itself didn't do as much damage ta Tracy's business community opportunities but was one of many instrumental factors that damaged it an continues ta damage it by encouraging business to locate somewhere other than Tracy.

Again in my opinion, Measure A did more harm to Tracy by it's passage than it would have had it not passed. I am also of the notion that if it were attempted to pass somethang like Measure A again that th community would vote against it.

It's an opinion based on discussion with many of th citizens of Tracy who largely seem ta now be against it.
LooongTimer
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May 01, 2013
There are dozens of warehouses in Tracy. One of them happened to go elsewhere. But to say they are generating a restaurant business is unfactual. It proves someone's opinion is wrong. I would believe a state trooper who opposed warehouse jobs (and who actually drives around looking for a place to eat) over backinblack's make for believe restaurant business. However, having said that I am not opposed to warehouse jobs or Target or the dozens of others who have chosen to come here. I do not agree with backinblack making up false statements about restaurants.

There is simply no way we need Measure A on the books. Having said that I will say we have to follow the letter of the law until Measure A is finally phased out. Measure A is not helping Tracy. It only helps people who do not live in Tracy.

Tracy needs smart growth as was mentioned several times. Just saying Measure A is groovy. Or saying that maybe someday restaurants will come is for warehouses is naive, and ultimately continues an endless idealistic argument that will end only when Measure A does.

Manteca is nice but spent in over its head. Period. Anybody who does not know that has not been reading their newspapers.
backinblack
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May 01, 2013
As much as I truly wanted to avoid any additional direct chit chat with you, what's your problem? Do you have a need to simply disagree with everything I write?

What you call unfactual is actually an undeniable fact. Business breeds more business. Restaurants are just one example of a business which can get redidual benefits from other businesses in the same general area. Throw in service stations for another.

Are you freaking kidding? If you do not know this well sorry but you probably should sit out the rest of this discussion.

Please show where I even remotely implied a restaurant owner or any other business owner for that matter would get rich because of a warehouse being located nearby, or that restaurants would be opening left & right, I mean that seems to be the non-sensical way you comprehended my comment.

Have you ever owned a business? I've actually had employees so I think I know a little more about their eating habits than a state trooper. Employees often eat lunch at local establishments or sometimes breakfast before work. They sometimes

shop at lunchtime or buy flowers at the local florists for their significant other. Get it? Probably not. Get a clue

pressreader12345
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May 01, 2013
Speaking demographics, many ( not all ) factory workers eat their own lunches and/or eat at existing fast food places.

Restaurants are more likely to go to Pleasanton where people have diaposal incomes and not just factory jobs.

backinblack
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April 30, 2013
"How would it benefit Tracy?"

Easy answer, jobs

Oh wait, are you one of the people who thinks warehouse jobs are unworthy? The facts of life show people usually do not start off at the top. They also show there's always been and probably will always be different skill & pay levels - do you believe everybody is smart enough to become a professional or has the natural talent to become a skilled laborer?

Do you think all warehouse employees bring their lunch to work everyday? I'm sure many would be eating at local establishments thereby helping the local economy.

Shall I continue or do you now realize there's other ways beyond tax revenue a business can help a city?

No offense intended to anyone, but to those commenting about what breeds bad business climates, what businesses look for when picking a place to set up shop, etc., have you ever owned a business, if not, what is the basis for your beliefs?

Until you've put up and risked your own money, hired employeees, provided benefits, had to figure out marketing strategies, dealt with the inherent stress, etc., how do you know what it's like and how do you know what thoughts go through a business owners head?

Ornley_Gumfudgen
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May 01, 2013
Almost dont wanna get inta this but I'll offer my observation/opinion anyway.

1) Trader Joe's didn't come here fer several reasons larned by contactin thair corporate offices an askin em.

a. Demographics - Population; both size of an economic sector of that population occupies.

b. Location - Th location they were bein offered was totally unsuitable for thair business. Between th Texas Roadhouse an th freeway.

c. Business climate with th City regardin permits an other commercial restrictions.

d. Future growth of th community, Measure A pretty much canned that fer awhile.

Field of Dreams in Manteca. Damn near bankrupted Manteca, accordin ta them, because th monies expended did an do not equal th revenues generated.

Warehouses don't generate tax revenue? What about th taxes thair employees pay not ta mention property taxes an taxes they pay ta keep th place runnin?

Measure A - A political scheme ta gain power in Tracy an divert it ta personal use, Say Tesla, Carnegie, Site 300 an th debacle over th Safeway Warehouse an it's history of creation.

Measure A displays an anti-growth philosophy by citizens ta businesses thankin of comin here an they go somewhare else.
jarbuckle
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April 30, 2013
Measure A has not prevented any businesses from coming here. The Tracy Planning department and a narrow sighted City Council has done that. Bsss Pro Shops wanted to move to Tracy before they approached Manteca. But got no traction with Tracy Planners and Ives. Big league dreams approached Tracy first but got rebuffed by Tracy planners and our good mayor Ives. Target wanted to build a 700,000 square foot warehouse but Tracy planners gave them such a hard time they went to elsewhere. the list is long. Forget about Measure A it has had no effect on growth at all.
CobyWasHere
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April 30, 2013
A warehouse does not generate tax revenue Jarbuckle. How would it benefit Tracy?

Bass Pro had their hand out. And Big Dreams had a huge price tag. And Spreckles Sugar Park is a much better approach to baseball fields.

I remember Manteca overpaid for everything they tried. And in the end Tracy came out better off. Manteca actually ended up owing too much money. And Tracy still has more business revenue than Manteca.

Sometimes the right thing to do is say no. Manteca's spending spree culminated with a news story with Manteca attempting to lay off over 40% of their police in 2009.

Be careful what you ask for. Manteca took stimulus money and that means a bailout. Should we also hand out money to businesses and take the bailout or bankruptcy while cutting 1/3 of our officers?
LooongTimer
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April 30, 2013
It was never 750 homes. Measure A was a no growth law. It went to 1492, 914 another year.. What happened next was an economic crash and no developer could afford to build homes. Measure A did nothing to limit homes. It was simply a lawsuit generator, complete with an emissions waste. Without Measure A we would have no impact on home prices or the number of empty homes because nobody was building homes, regardless of Measure A. Tracy would have built the same number of homes with or without Measure A. We would be better off without a no growth measure that only served to scare away business. That is the only thing that Measure A accomplished. Why? Because it was not written with our interests in mind. If you tailored Measure A for your political campaign you would suit it to fit your needs and not the needs of the people of Tracy. It did ZIPPO to limit the number of homes. It did nothing to prevent dropping home values. It did not reduce the number of empty homes.
backinblack
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April 30, 2013
Shelly started with: "Measure A choked the life out of our city."

Yet follows up with: "I have spoken with someone who actually spoke with Trader Joes corporate office in regards to Tracy. Slow growth and our cities business plan and demographics were mentioned."

I don't know if you did so on purpose but you actually helped support my point which others cannot comprehend. The cities business plan, demographics, exactly. In other words as I've been saying Measure A is not soley repsonsible for the bad business climate in Tracy. Matter of fact nobody here has proven with any facts Measure A had anything to do with it. Who did you talk to, who did they speak with at Trader Joe's? Was it a janitor or an executive? Even if you're right Measure A accounts for only 33% of the problem.

The rest of your last comment continues to support my side of this little debate as you pretty much imply we can still accomplish things with Measure A in place.

Earlier you stated: "We needed a balance of home, business and recreation growth."

Ok, before A 1500 RGA's, after A 750 RGA's. Pretending A never happened what's your number to achieve balanced growth and why?

shelly13
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April 30, 2013
I think you made it sound to us like Measure A was not a problem while we were saying it was/is. I think everyone was just assuming that of course we all know there are other factors. But I still think Measure A was a bad idea.

We needed Smart Growth: Smart growth values long-range, regional considerations of sustainability over a short-term focus. Its goals are to achieve a unique sense of community and place; expand the range of transportation, employment, and housing choices; equitably distribute the costs and benefits of development; preserve and enhance natural and cultural resources; and promote public health.The concept of "Smart Growth" emerged in the early 1990's, driven by "new guard" urban planners, architects, developers, community activists, and historic preservationists. It accepts that growth and development will continue to occur, and so seeks to direct that growth in an intentional, comprehensive way. cont...
shelly13
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April 30, 2013
Smart Growth principles are directed at developing sustainable communities that are good places to live, to do business, to work, and to raise families. Some of the fundamental aims for the benefits of residents and the communities are increasing family income and wealth, improving access to quality education, fostering livable, safe and healthy places, stimulating economic activity (both locally and regionally), and developing, preserving and investing in physical resources. The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency defines smart growth as “development that serves the economy, the community, and the environment. It changes the terms of the development debate away from the traditional growth/no growth question to how and where should new development be accommodated”
pressreader12345
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April 30, 2013
A accounts for more than 33 percent of the reason why Trader Joes did not come to Tracy. Trader Joes already knew the demographics before approaching Tracy. They wanted to know the same thing Raleys wanted to know when they delayed, is there going to be a no growth business in Tracy. The answer for Trader Joes then was yes, no growth.

Second reason is villification of any development backed by lawsuits. That is the same reason Raleys delayed. The people behind A do not even live in Tracy. They moved out of Tracy years ago but continue their opposition and Trader Joes needs to understand why people from other cities might opppose growth. Walmart also met the same fate.
shelly13
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April 29, 2013
Measure A was a definite part of the problem with businesses not coming here. It was not the only part. It was a perfect storm if issues businesses have with our city. In regards to Trader Joe's. I have spoken with someone who actually spoke with Trader Joes corporate office in regards to Tracy. Slow growth and our cities business plan and demographics were mentioned. If Gateway and can get off the ground (like Hacienda business Park did), downtown can attract more business and we get new members on the council, Tracy has a shot of growing into the city we all know it can be. We need an overall citywide plan. Not just residential growth.
LooongTimer
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April 29, 2013
Very very observant shelly13. You nailed it. what we really need more observant and educated voters like yourself and fewer like backinblack who have no idea which end is up. Having a divided council was idealistic, but it never worked for the voters. people sold Measure A like snake oil, but we learned from it that it created what you called a city without a plan. More precisely a city with two opposing plans and some bitter battles and lingering lawsuits ten years later. This is precisely the type of anti-business climate that Tracy is recovering from. I hope there are more people like you in Tracy. Unfortunately there are a few clueless people so entrenched in the bitterness of the aftermath that they admit to actually revelling in the lawsuits. Yes it did create an anti-business climate that will go down in history as a somewhat shameful epoch. In my book, one of the worst anyone in California has ever seen. Why is it so many are ignorant of the problems around them?
pressreader12345
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April 29, 2013
A was a botched attempt to build homes at Tesla. Funny how the newspaper reporters were sitting in the field where they wanted to build the homes. Enjoy a free lunch with crayons and poppy seeds. Here are your orders to make believe tales of a motorcycle Jiffy Lube where barrels of oil are dumped into the Bay oceans. And you thought that a newspaper was independantly owned. Ha.
LooongTimer
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April 29, 2013
Measure A did not reduce the overall number of residential permits. It was the economy that reduced the number of residential building permits. Without Measure A we would also have been better off in other areas of growth (business development) because it had absolutely no effect on limiting residential growth.

But everybody knows that Measure A did nothing for residential growth. So what else did Measure A do? Like I said it created an anti-business climate. Measure A was designed as more of a tool box to be used for a political campaign so it came with strings attached. And it did not have the right tools for business growth. And so the only thing Measure A accomplished was to harm business growth.

This should not come as a surprise to anyone.

LooongTimer
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April 26, 2013
If you mean to ask did anyone else contribute to an anti-business climate? Of course they did. That is part of the problem with Measure A, that it created an anti-business climate. Keyword climate. By climate I mean people sitting there talking trash about good business. It was not done in a vacuum or in a corner and they said it in front of everyone. You lived here since the 2000's, and we all know the history. Nothing I have said was disputed or shown to be untrue. I told you that Measure A was a failed political campaign. I told you about businesses that you had no knowledge of and I told you that Measure A created an anti-business climate. I told you the homes would not be empty and you agreed. I'm telling you there is no problem with the number of empty homes. I am telling you people are saying Measure A is a failed problem of the past, a dinosaur. You are still grasping at the wind. You have made up scenarios that do not exist to prove your self as credible and second guessed others. You say that you are no sheep and make allegorical statements about the Guyana tragedy and you remind me of the type of person who uses Hitler or Jim Jones to win a debate. Anything else?
LooongTimer
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April 26, 2013
Oh ya, Manteca vs. Tracy. Look they went elsewhere where there is a potential for more customers each quarter where they get more customers and that translates to business growth. No Manteca is not Tracy. Bla bla. I do not need to explain all this? You already should know this. Basic stuff for you. Maybe you just don't pay attention.
backinblack
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April 27, 2013
"Anything else?"

Yep.

Guyana, Jim Jones, Hitler, what the hell are you talking about? Good grief man.

I now see clearly what I pretty much knew after our first couple of exchanges, I brought a full compliment of tools to the construction site whereas you showed up with a pair of worn out gloves.

In parting: "Nothing I have said was disputed or shown to be untrue."

Um, I've challenged just about everything "you" said and you have presented nothing in the way of facts, statistics, or first hand knowledge to back up your assertions.

I'll leave what I'm sure will be the non-sensical last word to you.

Have a great weekend.

LooongTimer
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April 26, 2013
How many empty homes do we have now and how many would we have without Measure A? The same. The median income is higher in Tracy and well, that simply shows that more people can afford to purchase a home.

Manteca and Brentwood all have nearby populations combined at well over the typical 100k mark that businesses look for. What does Measure A do for Tracy? Well Measure A only left empty lots all over Tracy.

No matter what you think about Measure A it was and never will be good for Tracy. It was one of the worst campaign fiascos California has ever seen. It created an anti-business climate that flourished and nourished lawsuits like Raleys dreaded and delayed WalMart and the swimming center.

backinblack
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April 26, 2013
"How many empty homes do we have now and how many would we have without Measure A? The same."

How do you know? Please prove it seeing as you make it sound like an undisputable fact.

"The median income is higher in Tracy and well, that simply shows that more people can afford to purchase a home."

It also proves people in Tracy have more money than people in Manteca to shop at a Trader Joe's or Bass Pro Shop - I'm pretty sure a business looks at the median income of a city in which they are thinking of opening a location.

"Manteca and Brentwood all have nearby populations combined at well over the typical 100k mark that businesses look for."

Ok, Manteca, Lathrop, & Mountain House can be considered nearby to Tracy.

Approximate Tracy population: 83K Manteca 68K Mt House 9K = 160K. Why did Manteca get a Bass Pro Shop instead of Tracy? Hmmm, still looking for a fact based answer.

Have you considered the thought Ives & Co. may, I repeat may be at least partially responsible for the failure to attract more businesses? Are you possibly a Kool Aid drinker? Again, I'm not saying whether A was good or bad, only a foolish person would make an absolute judgment on something which cannot be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. The only way to know for sure where we'd be without A is to travel back in time and change the vote. Do you have a time machine handy?


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