Your Voice: Water park good for Tracy
by Josh Serpa, Tracy
Oct 19, 2012 | 4387 views | 43 43 comments | 7 7 recommendations | email to a friend | print
EDITOR,

I have been attending recent City Council meetings and I believe that Les Serpa’s water park project will be a great success for the city of Tracy. It will raise money for the city as well as providing a great summer activity. The Ellis water park will also teach kids about the history of their hometown Tracy.

I strongly feel that the Ellis water park is a great opportunity for the city of Tracy.

Comments
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Ornley_Gumfudgen
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October 25, 2012
dcose

"Find dcose's comment rather funny considerin he opines quite frequently an many times more vehemently than I do."

Me: No I don't.

O_G: Yep, ya do.

Me: No...

:-)

It's one of your more endearing qualities that I actually respect you for. Thanks for bringing a smile to my lips today. I have long respected your tenacity to adhere to the facts instead of going off in left field.

Neither of us are always correct in our thinking but we both struggle to get to the truth so that we can better understand the problem and thereby have the best chance of fixing it.

And while you sometimes make mistakes you, unlike many, are out there attempting to make a positive improvement without deriding those who have different notions and really do nothing more than complain.

Now get out there and build some more "slums" for people to work and live in you "evil" "self serving" contractor. :)

jarbuckle
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October 23, 2012
Ornley,

I am talking about the county roundabout on 11th and Grantline not sixth street. Looks as if both Mr. Cose Sr. and my parents were in accidents at that intersection when there was a light there before the new roundabout.
Ornley_Gumfudgen
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October 23, 2012
Thanks fer clearin it up. Yep, that was a bad intersection. Vestiges of th ole highway 50 that use ta be 11th Street before 205 was built. Works now pretty good but wouldn't have worked very well when it was a major highway, which is why they built thangs like 205 in th first place.

When everyone was talkin 6th an Central I was taken aback by yer comment. Now I understand an still hope your parents came out OK.

DunkMan

Find dcose's comment rather funny considerin he opines quite frequently an many times more vehemently than I do.

But in his defense both of us tolerate ignorance but are rather sharp at willful stupidity. An when personal attacks become an element of th discussion neither of us are very tolerant of th attacker.

It's a place fer open discussion an expression of thoughts an ideas, not one fer personally deridin someone because they have a different point of view.

Please, if ya state somethang as a fact be prepared ta offer up th evidence supportin th fact an ya won't have any problems from dcose or me. Others might let ya slide because they believe th same thang but just because they believe it don't actually make it an established fact. Opinions, as long as they are not personally derogatory ta someone else is OK as long as ya state it ta be an opinion.

Yep, I am verbose in my writin an some don't like it. But I would much rather be verbose an completely understood than short, trite an confusin.

I also use th Ornley personna on purpose and I can write correctly and spell words correctly when I choose to do so. So if you think I am an uneducated country bumpkin you are sadly mistaken.

The reasons are multi-facited. The real Ornley was a very good and unassuming man during my childhood. I use his name out of respect and he talked the way I write as Ornley Gumfudgen.

Secondly, all of the people Ornley knew and worked with, and many still today, talked in that style of English.

Third, it tends to slow people down a bit so they can determine precisely what I have written instead of breezing through and assuming they know what was written.

Now you know the rest of Ornley's story.

Have yerself a good day.
dcose
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October 23, 2012
"Find dcose's comment rather funny considerin he opines quite frequently an many times more vehemently than I do."

Me: No I don't.

O_G: Yep, ya do.

Me: No...

:-)

jarbuckle
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October 23, 2012
I would have to agree with Mr. Cose on this one. My parents were also involved in an accident at that intersection and it wasn't pretty. Some guy ran the red light at high speed and boom. The roundabout is a county project. Ive never liked that intersection and always avoided it with or without that roundabout.
Ornley_Gumfudgen
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October 23, 2012
jarbuckle

Sorry fer yer parent's accident an hope they are OK now but are we talkin about 6th an Central? Never knew thair was a red light signal thair.
dcose
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October 23, 2012
There never was. I did see the car that hit the column where El Castillo is now located and we repaired the damage.
Ornley_Gumfudgen
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October 22, 2012
shelly13

"Ornley I am confused with your point on the money given to TRAQC by Tracy Hills...would that not have been the other way around?"

Pure an simple, it was hush money. Tracy Hills didn't want thair name sullied by those who wanted ta pass Measure A so TRAQC was able ta extort it frum them ta keep TRAQC frum goin after th Tracy Hills project th way they have dogged th Ellis project under Serpa.

Serpa didn't play but Sousa did.

"There was no reason Tracy Hills would have wanted Measure A to pass."

Yer right but even more of a reason they didn't want TRAQC ta put em in th spotlight. Ask yerself, which project was first, Tracy Hills or Ellis?

"As for that money being given to FD and the schools etc. I knew nothing about that and would be interested in the facts."

Perhaps ya ought ta ask Mark Connolly an his wife Celeste Garamendi as they WERE TRAQC when this happened.

I'd really like ta know if th appropriate taxes were paid on that monies since TRAQC wasn't non-profit at th time.

They tried ta give th money directly ta th schools but th districts wouldn't take it because it had ta come frum a non-profit organization fer such distribution ta legally take place

shelly13
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October 21, 2012
Building a new city pool came about way before Ellis was on the table. It has been discussed for a long time and funds had been allocated for years. Not enough funds to do the project. Many locations were discussed and nothing came of it. That is why Ellis tried to come up with a way to get their homes built. Yeah swing a pool into it and see if they buy it. Ellis new the public had been asking for the pool for a long time and the city kept dragging their feet. Good try Ellis.

Still won't convince me on the whole round about situation. Don't like them.
RedHotChilliPeppers
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October 21, 2012
shelly13,

I am not trying to convince you on the round-about. Totally up to you whether you like them or not.

But putting a swim center with Ellis actually makes sense to synergize needed infrastructure that does not exist. Didn't a TRAQC member run for office and she said we should get something from the development deals, then when we finally do they turned around and said the same thing you are saying.

Like they are evil. Demons.

Ok, I get it. It's halloween.

Go ahead, verbally dress them up as witches.

Funny. I guess.

It is funny. Really. I get it.

LOL.
Ornley_Gumfudgen
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October 22, 2012
shelly13

Don't like roundabouts either but I don't make th decisions an apparently most people don't mind em or it wouldn't be thair.

As fer as th swim facility, it ain't th City Council that's draggin it's feet its th minority of people raisin a big stink about it while th rest are so ambivalent they don't say much of anythang fer it. An so it goes fer virtually anythang th City attempts ta accomplish taday.

Also with respect ta developers an Measure A, do ya recall a big pot of money that was given ta TRAQC frum th Tracy Hills developer not ta resist thair efforts ta pass Measure A or say anythang negative, we call it bribe money, so that they wouldn't become th focal point of people's anger in th development of that project.

Th Ellis folks didn't pony up that cash an thus became th developer whippin boy in town.

Th money allegedly was ta be given ta teachers in our school systems fer our kids. I do know of a couple of teachers that eventually got a pittance but we never got a complete accountin of those monies an once when asked if income taxes were paid on that money they never really answered.

Surprised that some with really good memories don't remember that.

RedHotChilliPeppers
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October 22, 2012
shelly13,

Did you never see the FD handing out poppy seeds and coloring books (from the monies that Ornley mentioned)?

I did and I thought of all the people (like yourself) complaining about the swim center and getting a coloring book instead.

And not knowing any better.

But I didn't say anything because people might say it's the FD wasting money.

Ornley_Gumfudgen is right the majority of the people don't bother to take the time to find out why.

Mostly they just vent about how evil developers are and nod their heads when the FD hands their child a coloring book and poppy seeds.

So forgive me.

But honestly, I don't believe you when you say you're pissed off.
shelly13
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October 22, 2012
I never said I was against the developers. I don't know where that came from. I really meant good try Ellis. I think when a developer plans a neighborhood the city should benefit with extra parks or yes, even a pool. I have been critical of the city when it comes to their planning on several issues. I was for Tracy hills too. But that got stopped with Measure A. I have always said we need smart growth, not no growth.

Ornley I am confused with your point on the money given to TRAQC by Tracy Hills...would that not have been the other way around. There was no reason Tracy Hills would have wanted Measure A to pass. As for that money being given to FD and the schools etc. I knew nothing about that and would be interested in the facts.

I also never said I was pissed off ( I don't think). Where are these words coming from? I do believe an actual verbal conversation is better than texting or blogging. Sometimes the intent of what someone is actually meaning is skewed.
RedHotChilliPeppers
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October 22, 2012
shelly13,

Skewed or not, those are good questions. And I will say it here. The newspaper even refuses to ask them, for obvious reasons.

Pretty sure some of the money went to poppy seeds and coloring books. I doubt all of it did though, but since they are not required by law to adhere to the Brown Act, what do you expect. Sad thing is we were stupid enough to vote for Measure A.

I will say I have to agree with you that Measure A was not smart growth. I even searched the Internet looking to see if TRAQ put their financial house in order, transparently. Couldn't even find a webpage showing where the money was coming and going. Cannot find facts. The trail is cold.

I have to agree with Ornley, I feel they did play favorites. Didn't they even try accusing him of being "flat broke" when he refused to pay?

If you ask me it is obvious.

shelly13
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October 21, 2012
It ws in July 20, 2012: http://www.tracypress.com/pages/full_story/push?article-Road work goes round and round &id=19466191&instance=home_news_bullets

I don't care who is doing it. i don't care what the studies say. This is a bad location for a round about. They will be doing it all the way down 11th street. They say all four sides can enter at the same time...what we dont have to yield? Of course we have to yield and hope that everyone driving is a good driver. Right? I mean at least the stoplights takes the guessing game out of it. Stop on red, go on green. Now we have to leave the decision on entering the roundabout/intersection up to the driver. You know there are a lot of stupid drivers out there. I see it everyday. This will make it worse. I understand the money had to be spent somewhere or they would lose it. Could they not find anything better? What about the bridge at 11th past McArthur? Is that still city limits? Well that sucker's gonna fall soon. Someone needs to take care of that.

Oh and the pool issue? I have voiced my opinion for years. They should have built it a long time ago. Sorry kid, it won't get done. our city leaders are about as smart as the county ones
RedHotChilliPeppers
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October 21, 2012
I think Ornley_Gumfungen is right the round-about funds from county/state transportation projects cannot be used for a city pool. You will probably need patience for a pool issue. I think Ellis was slated for 2014, but someone said "it was flawed from the beginning" and I think that is why they asked Judge Leslie Holland to stare at the paperwork from 2009 to 2011. The judge cannot take funds from the round-about (probably would be accused of a bribe), or speed things up. He (or she) will have to decide if Ellis was "flawed from the beginning" or if we should have voted no on anything saying, Tracy Regional Anti Quality Community.

You can put your chips anywhere on the table, but like the rest of us, you still have to wait till 2014, for the roulette wheel to stop spinning.
dcose
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October 21, 2012
Given a choice, I'd opt to be in a lower speed merging accident than in a high speed intersection type.

"So who has the roundabout boner?"

I'll take "A clueless questioning recipient" for $1,000 Alex.

:-)
Ornley_Gumfudgen
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October 22, 2012
dcose

"Given a choice, I'd opt to be in a lower speed merging accident than in a high speed intersection type."

I somewhat agree with ya but will point out that th speed limit thair is so low it shouldn't be a high speed intersection an if it is perhaps we need a little more judicious speed enforcement in th area.

Of course thair ain't money enough ta do that an this was paid fer out of grant money an accomplishes pretty much th same thang.

Still, I don't like roundabouts. Had em in some of th small towns I was raised around as a kid. Thought they were dumb then and still haven't changed my mind about em.

It's probably not true but I sorta get th notion it's some type of status symbol ta keep up with th French an Europeans whair such thangs are a lot more prevalent.

As great as th US is an how bad thangs are in Europe why it is that people wanna be like Europeans? An if ya thank it's better livin thair or somewhare else, wouldn't it make more sense ta pack up yer bags an move thair?

Sorta have th same question about people who like ta peace an quiet of country life an when they move out here they wanna make th place look a feel exactly like th place they just left.

Seems it would be cheaper an more efficient just ta stay whair ya are an not mess up th place ya thank ya wanna go.

Go figure.

dcose
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October 23, 2012
In the mid 1970's my father was involved in an accident at that intersection. Both faired poorly. Even with the right-of-way, another driver has to be aware and obey the traffic laws.

Though I am not a fan of roundabouts, I have seen the positive results of the one at 6th & Central. Traffic was backed up on Central to turn right onto 6th St during the 8 am period to go to Tracy High. It isn't nearly as congested now.

I also witnessed the results of a roll over at that intersection. I'll take the calming effect of a round about.
DunkMan
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October 23, 2012
Just my second post ever. My thanks to a couple of you for a warm welcome in response to a comment I made last week.

My family has only been here in Tracy since early March so I'm not up to speed on the background of the roundabout on 11th or the funding source.

I have noticed in other parts of the country where I've lived that those who make the decision to replace a perfectly good and "paid-for" intersection with a new roundabout are rationalizing their decision by jumping onto the environmental bandwagon. I've also noticed that roads with roundabouts alsways seem to spawn additional roundabouts at every intersection and the rational always boils down to pollution control.

I drive through the 6th and Central roundabout a few times daily and don't find to be a big challenge and generally I just merge with the flow unless there is a timid or unexperienced driver in front of me. I'd say 95% of the time I can cruise through the roundabout and maybe only 5% of the time do I have to stop. I have 4 high-schooler kids who drive through there occassionally and they complain that it gets backed up pretty good in the morning, but they have found another route that is faster.

Steve
DunkMan
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October 23, 2012
Wow -- I just noticed some typos that seem to have appeared while I was trying to shorten my comment to fit into the alloted number of characters. I'll try to do better in the future.

By the way, how many of you, on the first try, can figure out the spam filter / garbled characters you need to enter to get your comment posted?
Ornley_Gumfudgen
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October 23, 2012
DunkMan

Welcome to the sandbox an hopefully ya can play nice an th rest of th kids play nice with ya. Fer th most part people are pretty civil but thair are times . . .

Appreciate yer comments on th roundabout. Since it apparently didn't cost th city directly an was funded by grant money I don't really have that big of a beef with it an yes it does slow traffic down an that's a good thang especially fer walkin children in th area.

As far as how many characters ya can type, it seems ta vary. Currently it's about 1,200 characters includin spaces. An it don't always seem ta limit ya at all so it makes it difficult ta really know at times.

Hope ya an yer family enjoy Tracy as much as I have all th years I have lived here. It's a nice place an despite what many intonate here it, in my opinion, is one of th better places in th US ta live.

As with any city Tracy has it's problems but, again in my opinion, less than most. I would encourage, if yer really interested, ta first hand larn how yer city operates by goin down thair personally ta seek answers ta yer questions instead of dependin on yer neighbors information or information printed in th paper or comment sections.
Ornley_Gumfudgen
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October 23, 2012
DunkMan

That way ya get first hand information that isn't colored by people's personal biases.

Have fun an please, fer yer own piece of mind, don't take thangs very seriously an ya should have a good experience.
dcose
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October 23, 2012
DunkMan welcome,

(don't listen to that Ornley guy... he articulates when he thinks... some say, too much)

PS... and for God's sake don't tell him I said so. Last time someone did it was like turning on the water works and I was all like...

:-)

and as someone else opined, Have fun.
jjmello
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October 21, 2012
Interesting topic, I think it's definitely something to be explored though. I don't see how it can be a bad thing for the community though.

Also I will create a post on www.tracyforums.com
shelly13
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October 20, 2012
So can someone tell me why we cannot build a pool that has been in the works for years and we can tear up 11th street at Grant Line/Kasson Road to build a gigantic, stupid round about and a whatever artsy fartsy welcome to Tracy thingy that they will no doubt put in the middle of it?

I have already sen traffic problems/near accidents there. Whomever proposed/planned/approved this thing should be fired!
Ornley_Gumfudgen
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October 20, 2012
Two different projects an two different revenue streams feedin em. Can't, by law, use one pot of money ta fund th other.
shelly13
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October 21, 2012
I would like to know what "revenue" streams they would each come from and why the heck we are doing to project on 11th anyway. It is a total waste. I'm sure the money could be used for something more important.
RedHotChilliPeppers
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October 21, 2012
shelly13,

Isn't that round-about a San Joaquin County project that was approved years ago?
shelly13
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October 21, 2012
IDK that's my question. Who is it and where is the money coming from? Every time I have gone through it I have seen people having trouble with it. Especially since it is a two laner. They are supposedly safer than an intersection with traffic light. I don't see it.

What's up with all the new roundabouts in town? We have two downtown and more to come I have heard. So who has the roundabout boner?
RedHotChilliPeppers
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October 21, 2012
shelly13,

I'm pretty sure the round-about you first mentioned is a San Joaquin County project that was already approved. If so, it comes from the county budget. I think the Tracy Press had printed an article about that, but I can't find it so don't take my word for it. Maybe search the Stockton paper's archives too. I'm not sure how their search feature works (or doesn't work). I guess you have to memorize the entire title of the article to find an old article in their archives, or maybe they don't allow you to search the archives, unless you have a paid subscription. Not sure.
Realintracy
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October 20, 2012
And....police and fire are already streched too thin to perform their thankless jobs in the area we already have. Add 80000 projected attendees and we'll either have to hire more personnel or pay overtime to the already overworked staff that exists. No provision for insurance or security means actual cost will exceed the projected budget.

The city management has already diverted funds to the "sw center" from the ball field to attempt to makes this work. It will not work and ultimately take money from the general fund which is, has been, and will continue to run in the red.

Let's not forget Maciel wanted to sell the ball park to cover the costs of holly and the swim center. He changed his tune, kinda, when the citizens called the city on their shanangans.

This dog won't hunt.

RedHotChilliPeppers
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October 20, 2012
You do realize that parks cost money and that people in many cities of this world actually pay taxes every year for parks, swimming, and recreation?

Or is it just that politico thang?
Ornley_Gumfudgen
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October 21, 2012
Maciel, Maciel, Maciel, ya are beginning ta sound like a broken record. Don't recall he wanted ta use th money fer th swim center can ya cite th minutes in Council whair that was said or done?

Also, if city management diverted funds ta th "sw center" (Ain't that Swim Center?) wouldn't that take th unanimous approval of City Council ta make it happen? Oh, that's right, th City Manager, a non-elected position an one City Councilman, Maciel, did it.

An if ya recall I never said or mentioned th proceeds of th sale of th ball park should go ta th development of th Swim Center but specifically wanted ta use it ta develop th Youth Sports Park ta be located on th old Holly Sugar property which th City already owns.
RedHotChilliPeppers
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October 21, 2012
I suppose if someone still has a leftover "save the ballpark" political sign in their yard they are supposed to automatically be opposed to the swimpark?

That's why I don't bother to put up signs. The peer pressure gets a little out of touch.
Realintracy
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October 19, 2012
Should read does not include a competition pool will be 17 mill
Realintracy
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October 19, 2012
Josh Serpa- I'm sure your dad has the best of intentions.

Rhcp-" a group of two people?" (2 people, a couple). They don't live in Tracy? Funny, the proposed swim center isnt in Tracy....yet.

The project, according to the city and their consultant(s) will cost 30-35 million dollars, money the city doesn't have. The first phase, that does. It have a competition pool, will cost 17 million to build and does not include the competive pool.

The annnual cost, according to the city, will be 800 thousand for 5 months of operation, which does. It include, police, fire, insurance or ongoing maintenance.

The project is a loser as currently configured and we are going to. E left holding the bag.

RedHotChilliPeppers
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October 19, 2012
Realintracy,

It doesn't matter if it's not in Tracy yet.

Police and fire are paid for more than five summer months.
backinblack
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October 19, 2012
That's it? Well gee after reading this damn the torpedoes and let's get er done. Are you kidding?

RedHotChilliPeppers
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October 19, 2012
Unfortunately there is a group of two people who do not even live in Tracy who want you to believe it is a bad thing. They spend their entire lives trying to get everything off track.

They even helped the local paper craft and concoct lies about the cost, a pipeline, an airport, and every other what-if excuse and scenario you could ever dream up.

It's time for the newspaper to cut the umbilical cord and allow the people who actually do live and play in Tracy, see them for what they really are.

Special interest, FUN suckers.

Icare!
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October 23, 2012
I believe Ornly_Dumbfunder writes to spam-filter messages, read his (or her) comments and you might agree.
Ornley_Gumfudgen
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October 25, 2012
Icare!

"I believe Ornly_Dumbfunder writes to spam-filter messages, read his (or her) comments and you might agree."

Well since he is me, hopefully that will clear up yer gender problem, in order ta correctly respond ta yer thinly veiled complaint directed towards me personally yer gonna have ta completely define what ya mean by yer term, "spay-filter messages." Sorry but I am not familiar with th term so I don't really know how ta respond ta it.

Thanks fer sharing yer belief though an allowin others ta make up thair own minds but they may be just as confused as I am about what it is yer actually tryin ta say.
Ornley_Gumfudgen
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October 25, 2012
Sorry about that, arthritis in my hands actin up taday, make that "spam-filter messages" instead of "spay-filter messages."

Don't wanna confuse anyone more than they already are.


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