Tracy Press

A mayoral candidate and Tracy Municipal Airport advocates pressed city officials Thursday to back the airport rather than homebuilding for the sake of the Tracy's economy.

Airport business owner Richard Ortenheim called the airport a 'goild mine.' Glenn Moore/Tracy Press

For Skyview Aviation owner Richard Ortenheim, it was a chance to outline a business plan that he believes could one day generate tens of millions of dollars a year in taxable sales for the city, as well as create 40 or 50 jobs.

And for mayoral candidate Celeste Garamendi, who organized the meeting that drew about 40 people into Skyview’s hangar, it was an opportunity to argue the airport is an economic asset that needs to be nurtured. She also criticized elected officials, who she says have chose to back houses over jobs in recent years.

Ortenheim has more than 25 years in the aviation industry, and he brought his business to Tracy this year. Skyview builds airplanes that are sold all over the world, aircraft that are sold for at least $100,000 and others for upwards of $600,000 — and with each sale the city gets more than 7 percent in sales tax.

Ortenheim has a flight school and wants to turn a 747 fuselage into a restaurant, build a conference center, and feels the city should go all-out to build more corporate hangars that bring in wealthy jet owners.

But he later complained that the city has thwarted him on plans to extend a sewer line to the airport so he can open the restaurant, and he seems generally frustrated that the city has yet to do more to extend the airport’s main 4,000-foot runway another 500 feet so it can accommodate most private jets.

“The jets are where the money is,” said Denny Pressley, an airport advocate who talked about the airport’s history and warned of development’s creeping encroachment.

Garamendi suggested the city has slowly choked the airport that once had plans on the drawing board for a 6,000-foot runway.

Pressley and Garamendi also suggested the city has moved recently to shrink the airport’s safety zone to lessen conflicts with new building, such as the Ellis subdivision and water park proposed by developer Les Serpa, who was in attendance.

“The airport is an asset that’s being dwindled away by these actions,” she said.

Serpa said after the meeting that his subdivision was incorrectly portrayed as a threat to the airport.

Rod Buchanan, head of the parks department that runs the airport, did not attend the meeting but has said the city wants the airport to grow, and has pointed out Tracy has spent more than $1 million in the past few years to build new hangars and make the airport better in other ways.

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written by maybenotdumBcommenT , August 22, 2008

I for one do not think that any more houses should be built around the airport. Even an idiot can see that is a dumb idea. Make the airport work for the city. There is potential here.

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written by Malcolm , August 22, 2008

Here's an opportunity for economic development, jobs and even sales tax revenue for the City. What will the City Council do? Will they choose to promote and sustain the Airport or will they choose more residential sprawl (Ellis)? We all know Ives, Tucker, Tolbert's record on Ellis. It's Ellis at any cost. Just like it was growth at any cost for thepast fifteen years. We need Celeste in the Mayor's seat to stop this insanity. I like her promotion for job development, first the courthouse and now the airport. We need head of household jobs here in Tracy.

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written by Tracy RealNews , August 22, 2008

What there are two airports. I don't think this Garamendi is good for Tracy. She is screaming about one airport and forgot the other. Is she screaming about developer deals again?

And her opponent says she doesnt the same thing. We still haven't heard from her on the Keenan deal. Why all the noise.

It's what we're not being told that concerns me.

Wow! This may never take off!

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written by Tracy RealNews , August 22, 2008

The city doesn't have plans for a 6000 foot runway. How many years ago was that?

Where does this this stuff come from.

Where are the water park plans?

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written by Malcolm , August 22, 2008

Skippy's back with his Celeste bashing, is Amy back too?

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written by CATPReader , August 22, 2008

The supporters of expanding the airport are living in a pipe dream. Sure expand the airport but it won't bring those "wealthy" people in. What will bring them in is finally getting the commercial business park off the ground FIRST then offer the airport as an access point to the business park. Get real people. The City of Tracy can barely get businesses to come in. Livermore handles some of the jets that Tracy is trying to court and it hasn't brought in business in for them. In actuality as well the Livermore airport is closer to the proposed business park area than the Tracy airport is anyway. Yes not in miles but in ease of access. Widen Coral Hollow as it can take forever to get across town just to go to the mall.. especially during commute times or when school gets out.

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written by Tom Benigno , August 22, 2008

Who cares:
I want to see the figures on how much revenue, the airport will bring in to Tracy. The cost of maitaining the airport will be greater, than what it brings in.

t. b

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written by Malcolm , August 22, 2008

That was all presented at the meeting Tom, and it was not as you say.

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written by Dave Hardesty , August 22, 2008

Good question Tom.

I also would like to see the figures and plans on how much revenue the airport will bring into Tracy. If it was presented at the meeting then people like Malcolm should have no problem in presenting it here for the benefit of those of us who could not attend the meeting.

I would have hoped the TP writer would have included this in the article but apparently it was just too much to get down in print.

Dave Hardesty

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written by Dave Hardesty , August 22, 2008

Talk is cheap. I want to see a plan. Something that can actually work and not some nebulous pipe dream by someone stumping for election to the mayoral seat of City Counsel.

There are two runways at Tracy Airport. From the article both logically would need extension if you are to conduct 24/365 operations, and only one, the main north/south runway, has even a remote possibility of extension by 500 feet.

Then of course, no one is talking about the roughly 3,800 feet of additional space on each end of each runway for approach lights and a buffer zone, assuming you can overcome the physical problems with roads, canals, quarries not to mention commercial and agricultural properties.

Finally, and a problem experienced by the City for years now, there is the ever worsening noise problem. Do you think reciprocating aircraft engines make a lot of noise on takeoff and approach? Well stand by when the jets start landing and taking off; you haven’t heard anything yet. Living several years on a US Navy Aircraft Carrier taught me that these things are not very quiet.

Also comparing Tracy’s airport to Livermore’s is a stretch of the imagination at best.

Livermore’s measured single runway is 5,585 feet of continuous asphalt. The threshold setbacks are roughly 175 feet from each end, meaning the usable runway length, less emergency landings, is only about 5,235 feet.

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written by Dave Hardesty , August 22, 2008

There is a buffer zone from the west end of the runway, starting from the end of the asphalt to the edge of the golf course on that side, that is approximately 455 feet.

On the east approach to the Livermore field they have approach landing lights. The landing lights consume approximately 2,615 feet, measured from the edge of the asphalt towards the east, and an additional buffer zone away from residential housing of 1,200 feet.

That brings the overall length of the Livermore Airport’s single landing facility to about 9,790’, runway, thresholds, approach landing lights and buffer zones.

Additionally Livermore is a controlled field meaning it has a control tower that is manned and who has to be contacted before taxiing, landing and taking off, unlike Tracy’s Airport.

Now lets look at Tracy’s current situation.

Tracy has two 4,000 foot runways with no approach landing lights.

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written by Dave Hardesty , August 22, 2008

On the east/west runway there are two thresholds approximately 285’ from the end of the asphalt, meaning the normal useable runway is approximately 3,430’ in length; a far cry from Livermore’s 5,235’ of useable runway length.

The north/south runway there is a threshold on the south end approximately 260’ in length with no threshold on the north end of the runway, most likely because aircraft never approach from that end. This leaves about 3,740’ of useable runway length on this runway. Add a 500’ extension to this runway and you have 4,290’ of useable runway length, about 1,045 feet shorter than the Livermore runway, which the Tracy Airport is being compared against in this politically motivated article.

I say politically motivated because I have been closely watching Tracy’s airport for 30 years and have never heard of any plans to extend that runway to 6,000 feet and I would like to see those plans if they ever existed. Celeste said it, according to the article, and I want her to show that document to me because I don’t believe it exists.

Now let’s look at Tracy’s east/west runway. It too is 4,000’ in length but it also has two thresholds, one at each end. Each threshold is set back on the asphalt approximately 285 feet, meaning the useable length of this runway is approximately 3,430’; even shorter than the useable length of the north/south runway.

Unless you extend this runway over the canal to the west or over Tracy Blvd to the east, there isn’t any way to lengthen this runway an additional 500’. And while it is possible to extend approach landing lights to the west without the additional runway length to accommodate aircraft that would utilize those lights what would be the point?

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written by Dave Hardesty , August 22, 2008

The same is true if you attempted to install approach landing lights to the east and that assumes you can find a sky hook to mount them on above the quarries that are there.

Then of course, with the additional aircraft traffic, you would want this field to be a controlled field and would need to install an aircraft traffic control tower.

But let us assume we are only talking about extending one runway by 500 feet, which would not facilitate 24/365 operations; something you might want for a busy airport.

Of course, by description above, that is the main north/south runway and the extension of that runway would be on the north side. We will also assume the north approach to this runway will not have a threshold and aircraft will not be landing in a southerly direction because of this.

So what do we end up with?

A useable runway length of 4,040’. The additional buffer from the end of the asphalt would be an additional 455’ and that would extend into approximately 30’ into commercial property and assumes the building approximately 1,000’ away is not too tall to allow aircraft to safely take off over it.

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written by Dave Hardesty , August 22, 2008

Additionally, lengthening this runway by 500’ places it roughly 220’ closer to residences than it does in it’s present configuration, meaning more noise from existing aircraft and lots more nose when the jets start using the strip.

Finally, while the overall Livermore single runway facility is approximately 9,790’ Tracy’s North South runway facility is only 5,238’ and the East West runway facility is approximately 4,325’.

Now to Celeste’s comment, which seems to be directed towards the current counsel members and the Mayor so she can get herself and her hand selected candidates on City Counsel. I am surprised that none of you have been able to see this because it is so blatantly obvious. Willingly blind I suppose.

First of all, if something like this was to be considered, it would have needed to be done some 20 years ago, long before we heard the names of Brent Ives and Dan Bilbrey, not to mention all the City Counsel members we have had in that period of time. So to level this as a problem on the current counsel or even there immediate predecessors is disingenuous and nothing more than political rhetoric on Celeste’s part.

My question here to Celeste is, if this is so vitally important then why didn’t you bring it up as an issue some 20 years ago when it could have easily been done when the population of Tracy was about one third of the size it is today?

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written by Dave Hardesty , August 22, 2008

In fact, a decision to expand the airport facility would have needed to be made when the population of Tracy was somewhere around 28,000 people, instead of the current 82,000 estimate. “Should have, could have, would have,” all comments bemoaning decisions and histories not selected in the past and placing blame on those who were not even a part of an expansion discussion so long ago, assuming there was one.

Well, the past is dead, buried and there is no going back. Where do we go from this point forward is the question? Do we go with a pipe dream that has no real plans and just a lot of talk about generating ten’s of millions of dollars of sales tax revenue to the city and 40 to 50 jobs? Over what period of time? Today? Tomorrow? A year from now? Ten years from now? What?

Or do we decide to do something else that is achievable and a benefit to all the citizens of Tracy?

Dave Hardesty

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written by what? , August 22, 2008

Tales from the Crypt!

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written by Dave Hardesty , August 22, 2008

Comments from the fool!

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written by Tracy RealNews , August 22, 2008

Malcolm,

Who's bashing Garamendi, she does a good enough job of it herself. Why don't you tell her to put the courthouse over there??? Instead of in-between the tracks; she could just put it on the flight path. Then we could get Conolly to sue. Would that generate money? What's the plan? Is that all there is? Doesn't seem to be a solid plan here, either, Malcolm.

Can't your friends find a better candidate?

Bashing Garamendi? I just asked about the WaterPark. Also the 20 million dollars that Serpa will give the city. Could do a lot with it. And no other developer is making any better offers. Did you ever get Garamendi to discuss it with Keenan and see if they would be willing to counter offer. I thought not!

Ask Garamendi if she will give the city 20 million? Maybe she can afford it? Will it come in the form of another lawsuit? I don't get it, where is the TRAQC website??? And why are they in hiding???

Thanks Malcolm, but no thanks! I think she already did that herself!

Just waiting for the "transparency" that was "promised". Not seeing it there! Hope that helps!

Cheers!

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written by what? , August 22, 2008

I have yet to hear from Ives on his plans for the airport...
Will he be closing it to appease the new homes at Ellis?

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written by what? , August 22, 2008

I give Skyview all the credit, it sucks having city hall as a business partner. They will make sure that you fail everytime!
That is what happened in the past.

Richard needs to understand that Ellis is of the HIGHEST priority for city hall and campaign dollars are at stake! MONEY is what makes the leaders do anything. The politics of Tracy put you in a very unlucky position.

To generate the business that the airport has the potential for is not a pipe dream. It is getting anyone at city hall and the Amigos to understand the future of the airport is vital!

I am behind the airport!

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written by Tracy RealNews , August 22, 2008

I didn't hear of a plan to close the airport. Are you talking about the other airport? There are two airports. Which one is Garamendi interested in closing? Will she be bankrupting the city? Tell the truth, "what?", Garamendi can't really bring jobs to Tracy? Can she? She has no solid plans to offer voters? Does she?

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written by Dave Hardesty , August 22, 2008

what?

If you can read and comprehend what you read you should know by now that I am behind the airport as well. I have always been so.

Here's some questions for you and Malcolm to ponder.

Apparently the two of you feel that I have been bashing Celeste. Ok, perhaps I have. But is it any different that your bashing of everyone on City Counsel? If it is different please tell me how it’s different.

I don't call Celeste names and treat here respectfully in public. Can you say the same?

Some of the things you have said about Brent Ives and the rest of the members of counsel have been pretty derogatory.

Is the fact that I present information contrary to what she or her minions are presenting a threat to you?

Why is it that you can't respond logically to questions and statements and debase yourselves and the candidate you support with senseless name calling and personal character assassinations?

Are you so unsure of yourselves that you cannot respond intelligently without the bravado of a school yard bully?

Dave Hardesty

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written by Tracy RealNews , August 22, 2008

Will another of those lawsuits put us into bankruptcy? Ask her yourself?

Serpa offered the city $20 million. Did Garamendi/Keenan counter offer? I heard that no other developers offered more for the permits.

How much does a lawsuit cost? Remember the article where Conolly said he would sue the city, again?

Why didn't Garamendi deliver the letter, herself? Didn't TRAQC send someone from out of town?

And which lawyer collected the law fees, last time aroud.

Did it produce jobs in Tracy?

I don't see any solid plan from Garamendi! I don't think her "promise" of "transparency" will ever get off the ground!

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written by what? , August 22, 2008

TRN,

Ask Garamendi, I am not the person that can answer your raves and rants!

Dave,
Yes I bash the leaders at Tracy - All of them!

It is because they do such stupid things! They spend our money, work hard for a very small select, few people(those who are campaign contributors).
Self serving ego maniacs!Political, think inside the Triangle(25million).Waste and Pet Projects!
Transit Station(12million)Failed sports park (5million)
City Hall(85million)Grand Theater(75million)Tracy Hills, Ellis, Surland, free RGAs, Richland, exclusive deals!Free infrastructure(paid by us, the tax payers)
I really could go on and on!

So, yeh you could say I have some bashing issues!

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written by what? , August 22, 2008

Dave,
None of your rhetoric do I consider a threat. Just same ol song and dance from you and TRN.
Earth to TRN,

Ask the woman yourself! I cant answer your stupid questions!

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written by Malcolm , August 22, 2008

Well, Mr. Ortenheim's presentation was quite comprehensive and I'm not going to attempt to lay it out here. If you want the details then go to the event Dave, you came to the last one. Mike Maciel was there as well as Serpa. I think IVES should invite him to a side by side presentation with Serpa at a City Council workshop. Let's compare the benefits of the two projects to Tracy and go with the best one. Otherwise I want to see IVES come up with an original thought. By the way, none of the airport/aviation folks that were there thought it was too late for the airport. Denny Presley's presentation was very informative and backed up what he and Celeste were saying about the City Council's past and current actions. I think that should be presented to the City Council too at a public meeting.

Waiting for Amy, now that the two of you are back Skippy.

And Dave, unlike you I never claimed to be a saint. And don't forget your own uncivil moments. When you get on that holier than thou perch it's really insulting.

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written by Tracy RealNews , August 22, 2008

"Supporters painted a picture of the Tracy Municipal Airport on Thursday as a gold mine"

How ironic - because some of Garamendi's supporters also "paint a picture" too.

Right Malcolm?

Written by Malcolm:
"Well, Mr. Ortenheim's presentation was quite comprehensive and I'm not going to attempt to lay it out here. If you want the details then go to the event "

It always looks like Garamendi is too little too late.

Ask Garamendi to donate part of her ranch for an airport if she doesn't mind these noisy jets landing so close to home.

Serpa will bring $20 million dollars to the City of Tracy. What will Garamendi bring? More noise!

Will it come with another lawsuit against the city of Tracy ???

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written by fortheunderdog , August 22, 2008

I've noticed that TRN, again, changed the topic of this blog to include Garamendi bashing. Only a person with ADHD not taking their meds could do this.

Ives is backroom dealing with Serpa...building permits for a $20 million water park. Bribery at it's best. Ives knew in 2007 of Mococo possibly starting up and STILL he builds a transit station that has the high possibility of never seeing a pasenger train. This guy has vision but no common sense. Why vote to give him another term to screw around.

Now c'mon TRN, this is about the airport. Keep on track or someone will have to come over and find your meds.

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written by Malcolm , August 22, 2008

FTUD,

I think Amy took them to Oregon with her.

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written by Michael Maciel , August 23, 2008

As one writer indicated previously, I did attended Thursday evening's meeting regarding airport issues. In the past I have informally talked with Mr. Ortenheim about his business opportunity ideas and wanted to hear more. His proposals basically break down as follows:

1. An aircraft manufacturing and sales operation that would create jobs and generate tax revenue.
2. A flight school catering to foreign students that would contribute to Tracy's economy by the students living in the community and purchasing a significant amount of aviation fuel during their training.
3. A restaurant/meeting facility built into a 747 fuselage that would be trucked in. It is thought that pilots would see this a unique destination and heavily patronize the facility.
4. Establishing a jet center, which would require extension of the Tracy airport runways. Corporate jets would use Tracy as a base of operation.
5. A hangar manufacturing facility.

Attached to each proposal, Mr. Ortenheim gave estimates of how much revenue would be generated. (I do not recall the exact figures.) I am not an expert about the aviation industry. To a lay person like myself, the estimates seemed very optimistic. It would great if he was halfway close. Mr. Ortenheim did not elaborate on what analysis had gone into his estimates.

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written by Michael Maciel , August 23, 2008

Mr. Pressley addressed his concerns about noise and safety, particularly regrading the proposed Ellis project, and advocated the extension of the runways to accommodate jets. (Readers can draw their own conclusions about the inconsistency of expressing concerns about noise in one breath and encouraging jet traffic in the next.)

Ms. Garamendi blamed the city for all of the airport's ills, past and present, real or perceived. The owner and operator of the airport, the City of Tracy, was not represented. I don't know if the City was invited or not, but it doesn't matter.

This was not a true public forum to examine the "facts." It was a political event hosted by a candidate who has a clear agenda. She has a right to present only those facts that suit her and omit the rest. It is up to the voting public to recognize the difference and shame on us if we can't.

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written by Michael Maciel , August 23, 2008

For those members of the community concerned about airport issues, I encourage you to attend city council meetings where the Ellis EIR will be reviewed and when Mr. Ortenheim formally makes his business proposals to the council. (In spite of all of the information he shared on Thursday, as far as I know, he has not done so.) That is the venue in which all concerned parties can make their arguments and face scrutiny. Until then, folks are free to express their opinions. (Just don't forget the old saying about opinions.)

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written by fortheunderdog , August 23, 2008

Mr. Maciel,

Since you are part of this blog, could you please answer a few questions?

Are you in favor of talks with Serpa to grant him the majority of building permits for a $20 million water park?

Do you think this type of transaction is bribery?

Do you realize Serpa's return profit margin with those building permits?

Do you approve of Ives approving the building of the transit station with his knowledge in 2007 that Mococo may start up which would render the transit station practically useless?

Are your ethics as sound as when you were first hired as a police officer?

Do you think city officials whould accept offers that closely resemble being a bribe or is a bribe?

Thank you.

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written by Observer , August 23, 2008

Well, I, amy, have been blocked for four days and I think I am making someone nervous since I raised fuss about the Mococo line?
Not able to contact the "administrator" and not able to contact by e-mail, so taking up new registered name under Observer. But will end sign with -amy. If this gets blocked, too, you better take TRACY back from those who had a power play in it!

Malcolm, I don't need to add any more thoughts to this airport since I have expressed by views on it in the past.

-amy

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written by Michael Maciel , August 23, 2008

fortheunderdog,

You forgot to ask me if I still beating my wife.

It is unrealistic for me to attempt to adequately address your questions (none of which have anything to do with airport issues)in this forum, so I will give you very brief answers for now:

Yes. I'm in favor of talks.

No.

No. (I'm not sure he does either.)

Yes, I approve of the multi-modal station. I don't know what Ives knew or when he knew it regarding potential increased activity on the Mococo line.

Absolutely!

No.

During the campaign season I will be participating in a number of public forums, during which I would eagerly respond to your questions in person and in much greater detail. I invite you to attend.

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written by Observer , August 23, 2008

Good questions fortheunderdog!

Always thought it only caters to small aircrafts? I don't see the necessity to enlarge the airport in the future.

My other question, probably will get blocked,... why does the city need to sell the airport? What do they need the funds for? To prevent us from going the way of Vallejo? Better explain the need to sell it?? Not for developer's benefits?

So far I like the proposed plans for the present airport!!! Keep the original plans! For people's enjoyments!

More are looking for recreational enjoyments closer to home, with many activities that could take place, (hang gliding) Kite flying, remote plane day, so on... more people will show up? I think so? Does the city even own that land?
Sorry for so many questions!!!

Skater's Park there? s well as at Holly, make 2 skaters park since it is growing in popularity!??
RV Park nearby the airport? Bike racing park nearby? There has to be some activities for the youth to enjoy as well? Helps reduce the crime? This airport will benefit the Tracyites? I think so!
JUST MY OPINION.

-amy

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written by Observer , August 23, 2008

IF THE TRANSIT HAPPENS, it could take Tracyites to large airports?
Bart goes to San Fran Airport, so we really don't need large airport in Tracy? So close to populated area?

-amy

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written by what? , August 23, 2008

Mike,

It is my understanding that the city hall as a partner in the airport is turning its back on the owners of Skyview and leaving all future development to die on the vine.

Why would the owner go to the current council when he is getting nowhere with the city. It is a dead end street for the man.

My question is.. Did you attend the meeting with Serpa?
Was your attendance to help? Or be a critic of a business and a man that is trying to improve the airport?

Are you one of the pack to defend Serpa at all costs?

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written by what? , August 23, 2008

Mike Maciel,

Have you accepted any campaign money from Les Serpa, Surland or Ellis project?

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written by Observer , August 23, 2008

Really glad to see a candidate share his views on this forum.
Good move for open transparency. Thanks. Hope other candidates will voluntarily share their platform prior to election?

Wanting to hear views from both camps to see which platform on this airport issue would best benefit Tracyites? Thanks.

-amy

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written by Observer , August 23, 2008

Wow, sorry, didn't see that question for Mike Maciel from what?

Sure hope none of the developers have a control over the candidate's choices over Tracyites! Aren't any canidates and those on the city council free of any developer's interest and control? Better not allow them to control this airport, too!
Surland, Ellis, AKT, Keenan, and others....? Seems they want to control all of Tracy?

More interested in "Why does the city want to sell it?"

Better not to foreign interests? What would Homeland Security say about it?

-amy

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written by Tom Benigno , August 23, 2008

Who cares:
How many planes will land per day? What will they call this airport? "The Bush Elite airport". Come on put the money into something else, we all need to get to our jobs. Like a BART system. If you can't do that bring in the jobs here. Now that's a vision plan.


t. b

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written by Observer , August 23, 2008

I like the idea of keeping the airport small for the businessmen who want to fly their own private craft to oversee their operations of their businesses in Tracy? Make it available for them to land and depart from the Tracy airport if you want jobs brought to Tracy? Might help?

-amy

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written by fortheunderdog , August 23, 2008

Mr. Maciel,

I appreciate your taking the time to answer my questions. I went to bed last night thinking that I'd wake up to find no response. You definitely proved me wrong.

I am hoping that your remark re: spousal abuse was cop humor. If it was I completely missed it.

I am in favor of talks with any developer but not talks with Serpa for a majority of building permits in exchange for a $20 million water park. In my opinion it's a sneaky way for him to get his foot into the door and unethical for city gov't to approach any dealings of this sort.

If you were to look at the definition of bribe in the dictionary it would define the type of transaction going on here. If you approve of these types of talks, would you also approve of your officers accepting bribes from S/'s in exchange for a lesser charge? In other words, you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours.

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written by fortheunderdog , August 23, 2008

cont'd:

I am sure that Serpa has mulled over what profit could be made if his offer is accepted by city government. In today's money, it would total $100 million and in future profits it would surely surpass that amount. He makes $80+ million and the city gets a $20 million water park with a possible $1 million plus yearly maintenance fee.

Have you investigated the 2007 city council minutes, I think it may have been March or May, where Mayor Ives instructed his staff to probe the possibility of Mococo reopening? If you were already a part of city gov't, and you knew of a possible restarting of Mococo, would you approve of construction of the transit station knowing full well that there would be a possibility of never having passenger train service when Mococo starts up?

"Do you think city officials whould accept offers that closely resemble being a bribe or is a bribe?"

You answered the above question "No" but the definition of bribe from Merriam Webster is:

"1bribe
Pronunciation: ˈbrīb
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, morsel given to a beggar, bribe, from Anglo-French, morsel
Date: 15th century
1 : money or favor given or promised in order to influence the judgment or conduct of a person in a position of trust
2 : something that serves to induce or influence"

With this definition, do you still see accepting the water park for building permits as a non-bribe? If yes, please explain.

Thank you again for candidly answering my questions.

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written by fortheunderdog , August 23, 2008

If you want to save both NJ and Tracy Airport remember this definition when you vote this November.

1 : money or favor given or promised in order to influence the judgment or conduct of a person in a position of trust


If you condone the way our current mayor is running this city counter to the above definition then by all means vote for him. If not, vote for somebody else. The city will be in no worse position with a new mayor who has not made the mistakes that our current mayor has done. And if the newly elected mayor makes the same mistakes and cannot get this city out of its moral dilemma then we vote them out when their term is over and start anew.

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written by Malcolm , August 23, 2008

Fascinating Amy!

I assume then that Tracy RealNews was blocked for a few days also. Surely you've been told what the transgression was.

I personally cannot shake that "still beating my wife" comment from Maciel. It's not really humor in my book. After reading that I couldn't concentrate on anything else.

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written by Observer , August 23, 2008

Malcolm, was told nothing since I was unable to contact the "administrator".

Perhaps have something to do with my "request" on the other blog, since she did not respond will not use the cut copy paste of the notification of the forum planned for questions and answers between voters and candidates, her format to take care of.

Or my fussing at the Mococo line, but then that is another topic?

Might get blocked after this??

-amy

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written by Tracy RealNews , August 23, 2008

I don't see how this is not being one sided!?!

f you condone the way our current mayor is running this city counter to the above definition then by all means vote for him. If not, vote for somebody else. The city will be in no worse position with a new mayor who has not made the mistakes that our current mayor has done. And if the newly elected mayor makes the same mistakes and cannot get this city out of its moral dilemma then we vote them out when their term is over and start anew.

I see in another blog you are saying that we should give Garamendi a chance to "redeem herself".

I guess you condone the lawsuits against the city? I don't endorse Garamendi's (the lawsuit candidate? the first candidate to sue her way to office?)???

Suggest you may want to first - find a better candidate!

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written by Tracy RealNews , August 23, 2008

Also like to know more about your "moral dilemna"?

Did it have to do with not having a suitable candidate to vote for?

Was it because Garamendi didn't come clean about the "promise" of "transparency" or the "plan" for "8000" homes?

Wasn't she screaming about "backroom deals", but her opponent said, in another Tracy Press article, that she does the very same thing?

If you are struggling with the local vote, what will you do for pres choices?

Good luck!

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written by what? , August 23, 2008

TRN,
This blog is about the AIRPORT..Not your OCD about Garamendi!
You sure Jones for the woman!

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written by what? , August 23, 2008

Skip,

You are the womans Cyberstalker!

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written by Malcolm , August 23, 2008

Celeste wants to bring jobs to Tracy. Skippy knows that she would have nothing to do with building 8,000 more homes, she opposes sprawl. Skippy is bashing and smearing Celeste so his candidate IVES can get relected just as IVES in the last race lied that he supported and defended Measure A,Tracy's Smart Growth law. 18 YEARS of IVES hasn't been enough for Skippy, he is a certified IVESMONGER and he will stop at nothing, even bashing and smearing a great lady to get his candidate IVES reelected.

Where are you Skippy and Amy on the HOLLY delays? By now we should have an EIR consultant in place. Why don't you ask your candidate IVES about that Skippy? I liked you better when all you did 24/7 was roam the Tracy Press Forum gleefully proclaiming HOLLY Sugar the next promised land. Those were the days, Skippy and Amy, Ubbo and Dave, HOLLY, HOLLY, HOLLY! HOLLY this and HOLLY that - what about HOLLY Skippy? You know HOLLY, Sports Park Destination?

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written by Observer , August 23, 2008

Malcolm,Malcolm, Malcolm,, remember the UP and the Mococo Line, would it be reasonable to know it may caused some delays? I did ask about the EIR on earlier articles.

Remember about the comment on "waiting for the other shoe" to drop? How much will the UP affect Garamendi's plans and Ives plans? All candidates may have to revamp their platform since the Mococo line issue made its appearance.

Just have to wait and see what happens with UP? Perhaps the candidates will have better understanding as well as the Tracyites when the issue is decided on and then make plans from that point on?? Is that reasonable? Put Holly there now and then UP takes it over, more mess? I just think it better to wait and see what has been resolved with park as well as the plans for the airport? Not sure how close the rails are to the airport? Maybe none? Just so much on the plate at this time and I hope all candidates will have known what is on the plate and how to deal with it in the most positive way in case they inherit the problems this election?

Up to you folks if you want premature moves in making decisions or just play it smart and wait and see what the UP and the city decides on? First of all, will that affect any plans for anyone? I think so! Both camps except the few who knew anyway were thrown by the news? Not sure, but I was!

Thanks.
-amy

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written by Malcolm , August 23, 2008

Amy,

I'm thinking what got TP upset were the comments on Abercrombie.... they removed 47 comments.

Seems like you and others are adopting a "the sky is falling" attitude about the UP and Mococo line. I told you Amy "UNDERPASSES" if it really does happen, and then I have to add there should be some heavy duty ADVOCACY from whoever is in charge... is that happening? Is candidate IVES or TOLBERT talking to the UP? The next Mayor needs to have some answers here.

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written by Observer , August 23, 2008

Malcolm, you would rather Garamendi not attend the UP meetings to better inform herselves of the plans for any agenda for Tracy's future? What is wrong with suggesting all candidates attend the meetings?
I would worry if she got elected not knowing what to do about UP line? If I were going to be a Mayor, I sure would attend all those meetings as not to be blindsided by the UP and the affect it may have on the AIRPORT AND HOLLY SITE??????

I don't believe you want an unprepared candidate for mayorship?
Sure would be nervous about the future of Tracy if all voters just don't care whether the candidates are ready or not to run the city... what about the homeowners living along the rail? Are they prepared for the UP news? Nope. Airport? Do they even know if they will be in the clear from the UP influence? Don't know but that is something you would expect of a leader of YOUR CHOICE, NO MATTER WHO IT IS?

Well, good luck!
-amy

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written by Observer , August 23, 2008

Also, I am not the one suggesting underpass, overpass, it is up to the UP? Do you know that your suggestion to TRN not me about the overpasses or underpasses or whatever passes is happening? If not, then you are all in the same boat, the next move UP makes will determine the course of Tracy's future and growth? Will the town be divided into two, does anyone know?

Not me, do you?

-amy

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written by Observer , August 23, 2008

About Abercrombie, I still favor him out of all the city council members along with fortheunderdog and we asked questions in that article... someone made "false charge" and those 47 comments were removed since TP did not find anything to substantiate those charges, did you? Not me, either, did you, fortheunderdog? Didn't think so! So what about it? Malcolm? Where does this come in with this article?

-amy

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written by cherim , August 23, 2008

amy/Observer,

Sorry about losing your login. We disabled some users without working e-mail addresses. That might have been what bumped you.

Also, we've investigated the charges you referenced and have found nothing to substantiate them.

- Cheri

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written by Observer , August 23, 2008

Cheri Matthews, I so much appreciate the explanation! Sure was worried about what I might have done, but so glad that was cleared up!

Thank you so much!
happier -amy

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written by Malcolm , August 23, 2008

What is wrong with you Amy? Have you ever known anything about Celeste or her advocacy for the citizens? She attends nearly every City Council meeting and is well informed. And I'm sure if she becomes Mayor she will do all she can to solve the UP Mococo dilemna.

Why are you trying to divide the town in half with a train? Other cities use their Federal and State transportation monies for UNDERPASSES, like Livermore! The Mococo is nowhere near the Airport or HOLLY sugar, Basic Tracy Geography 101. You're starting to remind me of Skippy, didn't want anything built in the Bowtie and yet was giddy over the MultiModal Station (in the Bowtie). Maybe you've never been to our town, maybe you don't exist given your email abandonment.... And don't try to dictate to anyone what they can or cannot talk about on this forum, that is at the discretion of the Tracy Press, not you. I brought up the article where accusations were made about Abercrombie because you were speculating on why you were blocked.

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written by Observer , August 24, 2008

You accuse TRN for deviating from the topic, what are you doing now? So it is okay for you to accuse anyone, but it sure is not okay for anyone to say anything to support the issues that you don't approve of?

WILL THE RAIL AFFECT THE PLANS AT THE AIRPORT???? DOES ANYONE KNOW? How will ANY CANIDIDATE DEAL WITH THE CHANGES IT MAY BRING? Do you even know, Malcolm? PLANS???

-amy

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written by Observer , August 24, 2008

Well, I am satisfied the mystery of my being blocked has been resolved, thanks again Cheri Matthews.

The fact you brought up Abercrombie may have helped to address my problem, so I thank you for your suggestion, Malcolm.

Logging off now, good times tonight!
-amy

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written by Malcolm , August 24, 2008

THE MOCOCO LINE IS NOT NEAR THE AIRPORT AMY!!!!!

The Airport or Ellis, that is the choice here. I just reread Maciel's comments again in which he criticized Denny Presley, he mischaracterized Denny's concern re: noise and safety. Mr. Presley stated that when you build a subdivision near an airport the residents of that subdivision start complaining about noise, but the airport was there first. However, then the airport has to reduce their noise. He also expressed concern about safety for the residents of the subdivision and people that would go to the swim center (in the flight path of the main runway) That is a safety concern.

The Airport should be expanded and runway lengthened to accomodate small jets (we're not talking about 747's here). Is it Maciel's tactic to attend these events and then bash them later? Seems like a strategy to me and he seemed pretty cozy with Les Serpa after the presentation. I want to know if he has any campaign donations from Serpa or AKT. Would he represent the citizens or Serpa and AKT.

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written by Malcolm , August 24, 2008

http://www.lasvegassun.com/new...rash-home/

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written by Malcolm , August 24, 2008

I hope you will all look at the small map on the article, because it depicts what we will have with Ellis, if you look at the left upper corner you will see the airport runway which is a short distance from the house that the plane crashed into. In the case of Ellis there will be children and families at the Aquatic Center in the same type of flight path. NOT acceptable!

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written by Malcolm , August 24, 2008

If you click on the map it will enlarge.

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written by fortheunderdog , August 24, 2008

TRN,

I was out-of-town for most of the day and just now read your response. Same old response. You can read whatever you write in any blog and get the same answers. In other words, you have nothing new for me to rebutt. So I'll keep this short and end it the way that will most get a response from you.

I'm voting for GARAMENDI! Ives has screwed up this city too badly. Still talking to Serpa for that damn water park. It looks like he doesn't want to lose that $20 million but he's losing a lot more by letting Manteca reap the retail stores. So Tracy will wind up with a lot of homes near the airport, or underground gas lines, or somewhere out of the city limits. Ives knew in 2007 that Mococo might restart but still built a transit station that may never see any passengers. The man has tunnel vision for that water park. I wonder why? Another agenda? I say give GARAMENDI a chance to clean up the mess Ives got this city into. And as I've said before, we'll be in no worse position having GARAMENDI as mayor than we would having Ives re-elected. At least she hasn't made any mistakes as a city leader as Ives has done. I've got to tell you, I'm going to ask others to vote for GARAMENDI because a vote for Ives is like a vote for TRN and that's not going to happen on my watch.

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written by fortheunderdog , August 24, 2008

Mike Maciel,

Besides the remark you made about "still beating your wife", the only subject I'm concerned about is how you would interpret the word bribe. Here's Merriam Webster's definition again:

"1bribe
Pronunciation: ˈbrīb
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, morsel given to a beggar, bribe, from Anglo-French, morsel
Date: 15th century
1 : money or favor given or promised in order to influence the judgment or conduct of a person in a position of trust
2 : something that serves to induce or influence"

The phrase "money or favor" reflects the $20 million, plus the land, and the building of the water park.

"to influence the judgment or conduct of a person in a position of trust" reflects city government, ie: Ives et al.

After reading the above definition of "bribe", would you say that talks between the city and Serpa, which would give him the majority of building permits in exchange for a $20 million water park, would be considered a bribe as per the above definition?

If you do not answer this question I'll understand. I would not answer it either if my answer would jeopardize my integrity.

ps This will be my last question for you.

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written by Tom Benigno , August 24, 2008

Who cares:
The information at the meeting was presented to push for the airport,as you say, but we need the real facts. We don't need to hire a consultant to tell us if it works or not. Anyone can figure that out.
This guy Richard Ortenheim's picture was all over the monthly San Joaquin Magazine, as was his story in the Tracy Press.We know waht that is about.
Lets step back and get the facts, we don't want Tracy to become a dumping ground for high rollers to use our facility and play us like a violin.

t. b

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written by Observer , August 24, 2008

Ortenheim has a flight school and wants to turn a 747 fuselage into a restaurant, build a conference center, and feels the city should go all-out to build more corporate hangars that bring in wealthy jet owners.

Why do they want the City to foot the bill?
Is that why the city wanted to sell it?
Will it be sold to foreign investors?
How much total in expense to expand the runway to 6,000 feet?

Common sense tells me Tracy is not a town to play with at this time, it is struggling to regain its financial health with the barrage of changes hitting at Tracy, UP rail line being activated, and not knowing of the settled issues on it.

Home owners might be next one affected and will make their voices known at the city hall, over the worryies of possible "encroachments" of their homes on UP property. That has not been started on or settled on yet, but that will happen if the UP rail starts up. Possibily affecting plans on the plate for the future of Tracy (Sports Park)... now the airport and the demand for its expansion on the runway.... does the city even have the funds for it? Where is the money coming in to fund the runways? Is it even economically feasible at this time?

If the economy is booming, businesses flourishing, and jobs aplenty then go ahead and further indulge the rich corporates? Most of the corporates have their private aircraft? Why jets? Noise? Pollution? Affect flight path of New Jerusalem air crafts?

Why create further complications at this time? Take care of immediate problems first Tracyites and City Council members.
No way influencing anyone on whom to vote for,but be sure you are aware of the issues you are voting for, too?

Thanks.
-amy

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written by what? , August 24, 2008

Amy,

The city was granted the airport by the FAA and is the owner and operator. It is a publicly owned and operated airport. We all as tax payers have an interest in the airport.

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written by Observer , August 24, 2008

That is good to know, just be aware of further issues that may come with it.. noise and pollution. Exactly whom is the airport for? Wealthy jet owners? Is the airport going to be used by all of Tracyites for any other events? Or just for flight... is this plan checked out by Homeland Security... foreign students taking flight trainings? Better cover all bases securely before entrusting yourself to inherit more complicated issues? Since it is backed by FAA? Then why the city's resistance?

I just don't see the need to cater to rich corporates, they could fund it themselves if any additional expenses uncovered by FAA?
Is it sorely needed at this time? I don't think so. Later perhaps, just concerned about noise and pollution? In combination with noise of the Train... what other noises will arise in Tracy?

Will existing homeowners be happy about this, will it win votes for Garamendi from those homeowners? I don't know.
However if the majority of the Tracyites wants it, then the voice of the majority should be heard? Who does Garamendi listen to, who does the City Council listen to, I don't see any Tracyite's voices being heard! WaterPark, Sports Park, and other plans put on hold? Or failed? How much longer will they remain unheard by both camps? Not speaking of those who support their favorite candidates, I don't hear those who support their favorite candidate or the candidates or even city council people, I hear the people!

-amy
Good luck voters.

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written by what? , August 24, 2008

Amy,

Why should it matter who uses the airport? This an open to all of the general public airport, business, runway. Who and why should anyone be restricted from using the public airport? Hence the word PUBLIC!

I dont get your point...

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written by Observer , August 24, 2008

Does the Majority of Tracyites want it is my point?

Noise and Pollution?

-amy

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written by what? , August 24, 2008

The airport has been here alot longer than 50% of the homes in Tracy. It has 310 acres and has room to expand. The only cog in the machine is the city of Tracy. The run ways could be extended and more traffic and business could be generated in the near future.
City hall is protecting Serpa/Surland because they dont want to increase traffic and have to try to sell this as a negative impact for buyers of Ellis. Protecting and servicing Serpa is the number one priority at city hall and with our leaders!

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written by Observer , August 24, 2008

I don't think there should be any building of homes at this time, now the problems the home owners who may be "encroaching" (maybe not) on the property belonging to the airport.. means what for them? Having to deal with the noise of the jets.. was that disclosed years ago that it might be put into plan? I just think many homeowners will not be happy about this as much my brother's neighborhood along the rail are not happy about the line being activated.. after being told it will not be reactivated 11 years ago. Were anyone who bought the homes close to that airport told t