Tracy Press

...
written by timcase , August 20, 2008

Who says that gays should have a right to marry? The God loving people of this country certainly don't think so. The Lord'd view is very clear and very simply stated in the King James version of Bible (which is considered the most correctly translated version of the writings of the prophets and the disciples of the Savior.
Now the atheists on the other hand and the extreme left of this country along with NAMBLA, Pedophiles, beastiality advocates and necrophiliacs believe that "if it feels good, do it!"
I guess the people who don't believe in these lifestyles would be considered to be bigots and homophobes.
Why should the insurance payer and the tax payers who don't believe in these lifestyle be forced to pay for them?
Tim Michael Case

...
written by MarkDavis , August 20, 2008

TMC is incorrect about California: A majority of Californians think gays should have the right to marry according to a recent poll. Requiring law to follow the religious ideas of one religion is un-American. Saying some people should have a right but others shouldn't is un-American. Saying that gay folks should pay taxes but not get the same tax breaks as others is un-American. Fairness and the protection of the rights of minorities is American.

...
written by mark j , August 20, 2008

Tim, If we are to believe the bible, there was Adam & Eve from which came Caine and Able. Where did the rest of us come from? If the bibles story of creation is true then our very existence is based on incestuous relationships.
Before you accuse me of being a liberal loon, I am a Republican and I went to Catholic school. Religion and its place in government is the one issue where I jump off the party bandwagon. I want just one person to explain how we got here from a mom, dad, and two sons, actually one son because there was also a murder involved.

...
written by Annie Snyder , August 20, 2008

I, too, was raised Catholic. I was taught to read the bible for myself if I have a question about something. In reading the bible I have found contradictions. I have found that there are a lot of things written that are not followed by "devout" Christians today. As a democratic society we are allowed freedoms and separation of church and state.
People have the right to their opinions in this great country. That is why we vote. Get out and vote for what you believe in or you may have to live with someone else's value system.

...
written by Annie Snyder , August 20, 2008

I know that when that original letter came out I got upset and said mean things. I should have handled myself better. I have a hard time with keeping people in their box.
I believe in equal rights. I do not, nor will I ever, agree with pedophelia, necrophelia or beasiality. To put me in that category is rediculous. I believe in God. I believe in OUR savior Jesus Christ. I also believe that God created everybody for a reason. If God made a person gay then they have a job to do here as a gay person. We must all strive to be what God wanted us to be.

...
written by timcase , August 20, 2008

I can't agree more, any person has the right to live their life as they see fit as long as it does infringe upon the rights of others. When it does infringe on the lives of others and others have to pay for it, the line is drawn.
This thing about gays being accepted as a normal married couple is simply ALL ABOUT THE MONEY. They want their lifestyle accepted as normal so they can draw financial benefits from the government and the insurance companies.
In other words, the average Californian is going to have to finance the AIDS epidemic and all other illnesses that arise from a homosexual lifestyle. That's what this is all about, MONEY!
Separation of Church and state, I can't agree more! But shoving the lifestyle of the homosexual as normal down the throats of all people is also a violation of Church and State. Think about it!

Mark Davis states.....Requiring law to follow the religious ideas of one religion is un-American......... One religion! How about 900 religions which represents more than 75% of the country. Get straight on your facts. The majority of this country is opposed to gay marriages, religious or not!
Yet we are being asked to fall prey to this money grab scheme!
...... God MADE a person gay .... I think you would find a majority of people don't believe that. That is very debatable to say the least.....with that train of thought I guess we could also say God made a pedophile a pedophile?
Once again, let a person do what they want to do in the privacy of their own home, just don't ask me to finance it!
Tim Michael Case

...
written by bla , August 20, 2008

timcase, copy and paste the following link below to your address bar. Its a terrific article written by Rev. Mel White. Its a lot to read. I will give you a sample and paste a paragraph:

Most people who are certain they know what the Bible says about homosexuality don't know where the verses that reference same-sex behavior can be found. They haven't read them, let alone studied them carefully. They don't know the original meaning of the words in Hebrew or Greek. And they haven't tried to understand the historical context in which those words were written. Yet the assumption that the Bible condemns homosexuality is passed down from generation to generation with very little personal study or research. The consequences of this misinformation are disastrous, not only for God's gay and lesbian children, but for the entire church.

Do you understand what the bible says about homosexuality? I would say not! Just see how much you really know...

http://www.soulforce.org/article/homosexuality-bible-gay-christian

Mark Davis has given you a graph on the survey he is referring too in the TP voice section under the heading, PG&E — corporate dictator. Read it a weep!

...
written by mark j , August 21, 2008

I have to jump in here one more time and try to get a person of faith to ansewer my question. If God created Adam and Eve and all of us came from them, does that not mean we all came from incestuous relationships and that we are truly brother and sister? And would that not make anyone that abhors gay marriage to be at the very least, somewhat of a hypocrit?
Come to think of it, if you truly believe the bibles account of creation, anytime any of us engage in sexual activity we are engaging in incest. Beyond Adam and Eve and their offspring did the rest of us just magically appear? Can someone, anyone, in a factual manner, ansewer my very simple question?

...
written by Annie Snyder , August 21, 2008

Mark J, You ask for a factual answer...As a fellow Catholic, you know there is no facts on that subject. The old testament of the bible was an oral history for thousands of years, right? It was written in an old language, originally. I don't know how many times it was translated before it became an English version, but it was at least 4 times, right? Plus, for us to believe that it is factual, we would have to believe that Adam and Eve were the only people created by God in the beginning. Your interpretation is the only reasonable one there is. I asked that question of my teachers and priests when I was young. They had no answer. We were simply to believe. For me, whether it is creation or evolution, it is all theory. You pick which one works for you.....This is not a challange...just my opinion!

...
written by Annie Snyder , August 21, 2008

Timcase, You and I could go back and forth for hours. We disagree. It is up to each of us to vote as we feel is best and live with the concequence.
Marriage between two consenting adults is a beautiful celebration, in my opinion.

...
written by maybenotdumBcommenT , August 21, 2008

"In other words, the average Californian is going to have to finance the AIDS epidemic and all other illnesses that arise from a homosexual lifestyle". excerpt by timcase.

By having a monogamous relationship this wil greatly decrease the spread of aids. Loyalty to relationship is the same as heterosexual.

...
written by maybenotdumBcommenT , August 21, 2008

God created Heaven and Earth and water and light and sound and guitar....OH sorry got off track, skip the guitar. Eventuality happened. It is all mixed into one. The bible has not a single author. So what does that tell you, it is interpreted by whomever.

Good article and thought provoking.

...
written by Annie Snyder , August 21, 2008

Timcase wrote: This thing about gays being accepted as a normal married couple is simply ALL ABOUT THE MONEY. They want their lifestyle accepted as normal so they can draw financial benefits from the government and the insurance companies.
In other words, the average Californian is going to have to finance the AIDS epidemic and all other illnesses that arise from a homosexual lifestyle. That's what this is all about, MONEY!

First of all, gays wishing to marry is not "all about the money". It is about love and commitment. You disagree, I get that. As far as Californians financing the AIDS epidemic....I hope so. AIDS does not know age, gender, financial status or sexual orientation. It is everywhere. Those who cannot afford health care are, hopefully, getting help through medicare. There, but for the grace of God, go I. If you ever had sex then you have exposed yourself to the possibility of contracting HIV. I know there are other ways to get it, but sex is the subject at hand.
Second, when you go to the doctor, do you think that your fellow Californians are financing it? You pay for insurance. You pay your copay. Same sex couples will be paying their insurance, too. Finally, though, their spouse will benefit as well.
There are a lot of other diseases that we could complain about, but your argument is biblical...So, don't eat any fruit from a tree until it has born fruit for 5 years. I know I have said this before, but it is in the bible. The first fruit is for God. The next three years the fruit is uncircumcised. Only in the fifth year are you allowed to eat the fruit. Follow the Book 100% or don't go flailing it at me!

...
written by timcase , August 21, 2008

From bla
Do you understand what the bible says about homosexuality? I would say not! Just see how much you really know...
You have got to be kidding! Ever heard of modern revelation from a modern day Prophet?
The King James version of the Bible is accepted by the majority of the world as the most accurate translation into English, Now add this book to modern revelation from a Living Prophet and it becomes very clear!
Of course you must ask of God for yourself to know for sure if there is modern revelation.
That is of course if you pray, something I don't think you have done by your attitude which seems very apparent. Then again, be sure to pray in the correct way, otherwise you may be praying to the wrong being. The Bible tells us how to pray and find out for ourselves. Read it!
As far as the AIDs epidemic goes, the taxpayer has spent literally billions and billions of dollars over the years for research into a cure for AIDs. Insurance payers rates will rise dramatically if gays are legally allowed to marry. What they pay in rates will never begin to pay for the dollars they will drain from the insurance companies. It's like an additional tax.
The same rule applies to abortions on demand that taxpayers pay billions for each year. Where in the Constitution does it say we have to pay for abortions on demand?
Where in the Constitution does it say we have to pay for a gay person who has gotten aids from an unnatural act?
From Mark J:
I have to jump in here one more time and try to get a person of faith to ansewer my question. If God created Adam and Eve and all of us came from them, does that not mean we all came from incestuous relationships and that we are truly brother and sister? And would that not make anyone that abhors gay marriage to be at the very least, somewhat of a hypocrit?
The answer is a simple NO.

...
written by Annie Snyder , August 21, 2008

I do pray. I will pray for you.
Mark, Do you like the way T.C. thinks he addressed your question? It is the same way we were raised. You are expected to believe with no reasonable explenation. Perhaps I need to pick up a King James version of the bible to see for myself why T.C. is so sure that he has the only right book.

...
written by bla , August 21, 2008

No timcase I have never been more serious. It is obvious you did not read the article. Or is it that you are so brainwashed nothing at this point would make you see the a more factual account. Let me paste another example so you may understand why I feel you know nothing.

Over the centuries people who misunderstood or misinterpreted the Bible have done terrible things. The Bible has been misused to defend bloody crusades and tragic inquisitions; to support slavery, apartheid, and segregation; to persecute Jews and other non-Christian people of faith; to support Hitler's Third Reich and the Holocaust; to oppose medical science; to condemn interracial marriage; to execute women as witches; and to support the Ku Klux Klan. Shakespeare said it this way: "Even the devil can cite Scripture for his purpose."

Have a nice day...

...
written by bla , August 21, 2008

Sorry Mr. Case I know this will be a never ending debate with you but, I have to make a few more comment regarding your remarks on Aids and insurance.

timcase wrote: As far as the AIDs epidemic goes, the taxpayer has spent literally billions and billions of dollars over the years for research into a cure for AIDs. Insurance payers rates will rise dramatically if gays are legally allowed to marry. What they pay in rates will never begin to pay for the dollars they will drain from the insurance companies. It's like an additional tax.

What about cancer! Do you have a problem with monies paid to research Cancer or any other incurable desease? What do you have to say to all those good christians or anyone, that have raised or donated their own money to help fight aids. Oh yeah, lets blame the ever so increasing insurance rates on same-sex marriage. Now that way of thinking is so illogical that it makes me laugh. Com'n, its going to get more expensive every year and its not because of the outcome of prop.8. You are right about one thing, I do see you as a bigot and homophobe, lets not forget selfish.

...
written by Annie Snyder , August 21, 2008

Right on, Bla! I agree with you. That was very well written! I am glad that you fight for the greater good. Your arguments were intellectual. Thanks for bringing your A game!

...
written by mark j , August 21, 2008

Seems to me that if gay couples could be legally married, which would hopefully lead to more monogamous relationships, we would have fewer cases of AIDs and therefor save money on medical care. Just a thought.

...
written by mark j , August 21, 2008

Here's another question for those that believe they are qualified to judge humanity. What is worse, homosexuality or incest? The bible says homosexuality is wrong yet by the accounts of creation as described in the bible, we are all here because of incest. Oh wait, I'll assume there is the possibility that someone said abracadabra and we all appeared without Adam, Eve, and their offspring engaging in incestuous relationships. I'll ask again, beyond Adam, Eve, and their offspring, how do you explain how the rest of us came into being?

...
written by bla , August 21, 2008

Thank you Annie, I always like to read what you have to say. You and I think alot alike. Mark j, I think you are beating a dead horse with your question. timcase answered your question "The answer is a simple NO." You must stop teasing him. He does not want to answer you because it would go against everything he believes. It's perfectly endurable if someone's opinion is different then mine but, to say homosexuality goes against what the bible says is a bunch of crock! I guess to them it sounds better then stating the real reasons behind thier antipathy. I do believe in God but, my feelings about what is moral comes from the heart and not from a bunch of religious fanatics who interpet the bible based on their own beliefs.

...
written by mark j , August 21, 2008

bla, I am not teasing Tim. I think a question is worth asking until it is ansewered. The question is not directed at Tim, it is directed at ANYONE that can ansewer it. Why does everyone seem to fear trying to explain the bibles account of how we came into existince? Was it incest or magic?

...
written by sleepy , August 21, 2008

mark j, since we're asking about OT tell me your take on Jonah and the big fish (whale?)...now be carefull the Jews believe in this.

...
written by sleepy , August 21, 2008

another thought Why can't Larry, Moe and Curly get married?

...
written by mark j , August 21, 2008

sleepy, I had to read the story of Jonah before replying. It's been awhile since I've read the bible. Does anyone actually believe a man can survive in a whales belly for three days? If you read the story of Jonah and look at it in an objective manner, you would have to conclude that the author was on hallucinogenics.

...
written by Annie Snyder , August 21, 2008

Larry, Moe and Curly were not in love with each other. They were heterosexual.
Since we don't have the fortitude to look into the original writings of the bible and research the meaning we will never know the true story of Jonah and the Whale as it was written. Perhaps Jonah was on something, came down and believed the experience to be true. He told someone of his "adventure". One thing led to another until it was written. It may simply have been a whale of a tale.
I would never discount the Jewish faith, though. They are a strong people and they practice their beliefs better than most Christians.

...
written by bla , August 22, 2008

Mark J. You are teasing because no one knows for sure. If you were to follow the bible then the answer to your question "beyond Adam, Eve, and their offspring, how do you explain how the rest of us came into being?" would be that we are all descendents of Adam & Eve. On a more factual basis I have read that through mitochondrial DNA (which each person receives from their mother, and which has changed very slowly and predictably over the milennia of human existence)has been established that all humankind did indeed descend from only one woman. Now this brings up another question. Since they can only distinguish the mother's DNA could there have been other Adams? Did some of Eve's children come from God as did Jesus? Mark, is this something you really want to know or are you trying to make a point?

...
written by mark j , August 22, 2008

bla, If all dna is traced to one women, that would support my assertion that we are here through incestuous relationships. If there were other Adams, the entire bible would have to be reexamined because the book of creation would be a complete falsehood. If God put the other Adams on this planet, at what point did they come into being and why is there no mention of them in the bible? Hmmm, again, questions that cannot be ansewered with reason. If you have to do twist and turns to prove something, I would say that the proof you present is invalid.

...
written by bla , August 22, 2008

mark j. I do agree and if you believe I am trying to prove different then you are mistaken. If you read what I wrote again then you would know that what I was trying to communicate is that there is no proof. If you go by what the bible says then we are all created from incest. So why do people use the bible to define morals?

...
written by Annie Snyder , August 22, 2008

The world may never know. Creation....Evolution....take your pick. This is what I tell people: I believe you may have decended from apes. I, however, am a gift from God.

...
written by mark j , August 22, 2008

bla, Your last question is very good. The bible is filled with hate and hypocrisy. I do not think it's the best source to build morals. We have been here long enough to know what is accepted as right or wrong, good or bad, curteous or rude, etc. Too many people of faith think if someone like me doesn't go to church or pray that I am some how lacking in morals and charachter. That's arrogant and judgemental on their part. I would put my morals, which I developed because of my parents and not God, up against the morals of any person of faith.
I use to keep my religous views pretty much to myself but I am getting tired of the people that use religion to persecute people that don't agree with them. As far as I'm concerned extremism of any kind is dangerous but the most dangerous of all is religous extremism.

...
written by sleepy , August 22, 2008

annie,
Larry, Moe and Curly was a metaphor 2 represent 3 gays...

...
written by timcase , August 22, 2008

To bla (who has no name)
Read the article and saw the chart from Mark Davis. Yes, I read it, but I am not weeping. The gay biblical scholar and theologian who wrote it. This so called scholars interpretation of Mark's writings which he plainly states in the article are NOT what the Saviour said. Read them! Jesus was very specific when he says any man or woman who leaves their spouse (notice it is NOT man and man or woman and woman)because of lust for another member of the opposite sex is not accepted.
In the Lord's true Church this is very true and practiced today. However, if you are a "born again" with no church or a member of one of the thousands of churches that is not under the direct authority of God the Father, it is very easy to get a divorce because of lust. Even the Catholics will alow the divorce if you have enough money. This is only one of reasons I left the Catholic Church after 33 years.
The other passage the gay biblical scholar uses from Mark refers to the "OLD" Testament as the Pharisees and Sadducees were living by that law. Jesus pointed out to them that they are NOT given in marriage after death and the marriage they refer to is NOT accepted of God. Jesus was the beginning of the "NEW" Testament and trying to straighten out the Sadducees and Pharisees for their twisted interpretation of the scriptures from the past.
Interesting to note, Jesus states specifically a man and woman shall cleave together and be as one, NOT a man and man or a woman and woman.
The 2 great commandments are very true: 1. Love God above all else and love thy fellow man. He also states very specifically we are to hate the sin but love the sinner. This does NOT mean we can condone the sin.

...
written by timcase , August 22, 2008

In other words, we are not accountable for their sin but we must love the sinner. In the modern day revelation the Lord is very specific when Jesus says, "I will forgive who I will forgive but of YOU, it is REQUIRED to forgive all men" Once again, He does not say we are accountable for their sin and we do NOT have to pay for it.
I notice that you reverted the same rhetoric that all very liberal pro-gay people do when they compare one who does not see things their way To Hitler, Murderers in the Crusades who did so in the name of God. You folks are real good at that but it does tend to get old.
disciples in the new testament never got paid for doing what they did. This is the way it is in the Lord's true Church today, no PAID ministry but lots of members doing various jobs. The leadership of the Church do NOT get paid. It is totally volunteer.
So it is easy to see why there are so many interpretations of the Savior's teachinThe televangelists are the same way as are the Jerry Falwells of the world. They make a lot of money, as does this gay biblical scholar by telling people what they want to hear. If they don't they will lose their flock and also lose their money. Some get quite rich and wealthy preaching in the name of God and the so called "spirit of the Holy Ghost".
Notice how Jesus teaching of His Father and the apostles and amongst the so called "Biblical Scholars" and "Theologians".

...
written by timcase , August 22, 2008

a Biblical Scholar and Theologian mean to me that they no longer need the guidance of the Holy Ghost. They know it all themselves. And if they are teaching by the Holy Ghost, how come they are all teaching very different things?
Enough said!

...
written by Annie Snyder , August 22, 2008

Timcase wrote: I notice that you reverted the same rhetoric that all very liberal pro-gay people do when they compare one who does not see things their way To Hitler, Murderers in the Crusades who did so in the name of God. You folks are real good at that but it does tend to get old.

Timcase wrote: Now the atheists on the other hand and the extreme left of this country along with NAMBLA, Pedophiles, beastiality advocates and necrophiliacs believe that "if it feels good, do it!"
I guess the people who don't believe in these lifestyles would be considered to be bigots and homophobes.
Why should the insurance payer and the tax payers who don't believe in these lifestyle be forced to pay for them?

And you, Tim Case, reverted to the same old rhetoric that the radical Christian, anti-gay people do when they compare one who does not see things their way to pedophiles and beastiality advocates.

Like I said before, we do not agree. I will not believe that God does not accept homosexuality. In the bible they refer to one of the deciples as "the one that Jesus loved". Mary Magdalene's writings were completely omitted. The bible was written by men. It followed the law of the land at that time.