| Moving forward |
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| Written by Eric Firpo / Tracy Press | |
| Wednesday, 30 July 2008 | |
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Following Tuesday's meeting of Tracy planners and council members, Les Serpa and his development firm appears set to strike a deal with the city for building permits.
![]() Les Serpa, head of The Surland Cos., speaks to the City Council and Planning Commission on Tuesday night. Glenn Moore/Tracy Press But first, a bit of confusion about the agreement must be eliminated amid criticism that the proposed Ellis subdivision will hinder growth at Tracy Municipal Airport, that the deal is illegal, and that it might be unsafe because the subdivision will sit atop high-pressure, underground natural-gas pipelines. In a two-hour joint meeting between the Planning Commission and the City Council Tuesday evening, the public for the first time got to chime in about the proposed development agreement. If the deal is OK’d without a hitch, which is far from guaranteed, the city could have a swim center open in about three years. The deal would pave the way for Serpa’s company, The Surland Cos., to build 2,250 homes on about 300 acres on the northwest corner of Linne and Corral Hollow roads. It would also give him the rights to build another 1,600 houses elsewhere in town at some point in the future, which is a sticking point for critics who fear he might sell those rights, despite his statements to the contrary. The deal also requires Surland to be financially involved in any subdivision that would use those 1,600 building rights. Those extra rights seem to make Councilman Steve Abercrombie and Councilwoman Irene Sundberg uneasy, and they both suggested future talks might cut those back. However, the deal would allow Serpa, at least in theory, to build as few as 500 homes at Linne and Corral Hollow and use the other 3,350 growth allotments for homes somewhere else in Tracy.
![]() Commissioners Carol Blevins and Marc Shishido along with Mayor Brent Ives discuss the Ellis project Tuesday. Glenn Moore/Tracy Press It’s a point that will re-examined by city planners. The right to build homes is barred until 2012, and thereafter, about a half-dozen developers will compete for the limited rights to build an average of 600 homes per year under the Measure A slow-growth law. Denny Presley, an advocate of the Tracy Municipal Airport, complained that Serpa’s homes and aquatics park could restrict flights that take off from the airport, in violation of the 1946 code of regulations the city agreed to when it took over the airport from the federal government. City officials said that will be looked into that as well. Activist Carole Dominguez once again railed against what she said was a lack of analysis about the high-pressure pipelines under the proposed subdivision — the same pipelines that helped derail suggested youth sports parks at the former antenna farm on Schulte Road. She said the environmental report on the subdivision barely delved into the location, depth, condition and history of those pipelines, another facet the city will dig deeper into, the council decided. And Mark Connolly of Tracy Region Alliance for a Quality Community also blasted the project and the city’s environmental study, calling it "illegal," and hinting at a lawsuit. But not all the comments of the night were critical. Tracy resident Michel Bazinet piled praise on the proposed swim center, which he said would be just about the only place in town where families could go to have fun together. "A swim center would do nothing less than transform recreational life in Tracy," he said. Sue Rainey also said the city should move ahead with the deal. "I guess because of airports and gas lines, no city should be expanded," she said. The big fight of the night was over whether the city should try to put a price tag on the value that Serpa is getting versus the value the city will receive for the swim center and the land it will sit on.
Commissioner Carole Blevins wanted department heads to figure out the worth of the benefits Serpa would get, given the public knows he has to pay the city Under the deal, Serpa gets building rights, water and sewage treatment rights that he has to pay for when used, and naming rights to the aquatics center. Except for Sundberg, others on the council, after a lengthy debate, rejected putting a price tag on the benefits Serpa would receive. But in the end, the council decided that department heads could figure out how much building permits would cost Serpa in today’s dollars. Trackback(0)
Comments
(200)
Holly site was for sports fields like baseball and soccer.
No pool that I'm aware of. Serpa's aquatics center is being planned for land near the end of the Tracy municipal airport runway. which he said would be just about the only place in town where families could go to have fun together Nonsense. There are plenty of parks, bike trails, 2 swimming pools in the summer, a movie theater, restaurants, shopping mall, tennis courts, basketball courts, and open space in many parks for families to enjoy being together. And yes I do these things with my kids.
So we're expecting the HOLLY supporters to condemn this developer deal and ask for a swim center to be built at HOLLY right? Where are the HOLLY supporters now?
It is the MAIN flight path of the airport and it is MAIN gas transmission lines NOT the small distribution lines that run througout the city. What gives! THIRTY FIVE years of building rights - THATS some DEAL! And it's ILLEGAL too?
Wow! So early in the AM and already it starts?
First of all I am not in favor of an aquatics facility on the Holly site but it's not all together a bad idea. I also wonder why everyone is so concerned about one developer or another doing the deal. After, it's what developers do and if the City can wrangle a deal out of it and get an Aquatics facility in the deal, it sounds like a good deal to me. Yep, the ole gas pipeline has been there for a long long long time and I am surprised that someone is just now bringing it up. Sounds like some sandbagging to me for other motives but hey, what do I know, it apparently had to be found by someone who doesn't even reside in Tracy and that makes me wonder what the real interest might be. But that's speculative within my own mind and others as well. With any development on that end of town it has been air quality, proximity to Site 300 and, when all else fails, the gas pipeline. Oh, I almost forgot, with this particular issue it's now the airport and some paperwork signed in 1946 code of regulations signed 52 years ago and when there was absolutely nothing around the airport at that time. What amazes me about this is that absolutely nothing has been said or even hinted at as all of the other housing developments in that area were built.
Oh the outrage. Why oh why didn't they do something like that back in 1979 when I bought my home in Tracy and had a clear unobstructed view of the Airport from the Tennis Village Subdivision. Perhaps I should sue the city because if it had enforced what ever code was there I wouldn't have to daily listen to the insidious ranting and ravings of all the newcomers since then who have now populated those subdivisions and instead of living in the geographic center of town I would still be on the town's southwestern side. (For you who have your shorts in a wad over this, the preceding paragraph is sarcasm. Get over it.
In addressing the "danger" of the airport with a close proximity to an Aquatics Facility I would like to point to some other, very large and very busy airport facilities whose approaches are much closer and directly over highly populated and trafficked areas. A good example is LAX. The buffer at the end of their main strip was increased but that was because of the noise of the heavies that land there and not because of a safety issue. SJC (San Jose) is a really good example. The main approach is directly over downtown San Jose and those heavies are a scant few hundred feet over the tops of the buildings. I do most of my travel out of that International Airport and have done at least 200 landings on that field in the past 20 years and do not recall anyone ever having any SAFETY related heartburn. But wait, I am not finished. Am I ever?
Let's take a good hard look at another huge and very busy airport shall we? It's called SEA (Seattle Tacoma Airport) in Washington State and it's approaches and departures are all over the tops of residential and public buildings. Further to the north is the infamous Boeing field who's southern runway has a departure/ approach over residential and public buildings. What's funny about this is that Boeing flies a lot of experimental and reconditioned in and out of this field all of the time.
Now lets move a little further to the Boeing facility at Everett Washington. Guess what? Ah come on, you guessed it, where's the fun in that? Yep less than five hundred feet off the end of their runways, right in the approach and departure for those fields, why there is, dare I say it, yes, I dare, housing and public buildings. From the McDonalds in Mulketo, a city adjacent to Everett Field, you can count the rivets in the aircraft frequently flying overhead. Now we have Tracy's puny little airport. No insult intended to the aviators who use this facility or the facility itself, just a statement to bring things into perspective. Considering the amount of approaches and departures on this facility, they pale in comparison to what occurs in both civil and commercial aviation at the facilities I have just previously mentioned. Considering this FACT, it would seem logical that the associated risks are much much lower than in these other high density populated areas that very little worry is given too. Oh, almost forgot. Anyone reading this know anything about Lindbergh field in San Diego? That International Airport's sole runway has probably one of the worst approach/departures in the world. Ask any pilot about it and be sure to discuss the crosswinds in that area as well.
Then there is Moffett field in Sunnyvale. While departures are pretty much OK what about their approach? Yep, you guessed it, right over housing, apartments and a golf course where a P-3 Orion (Constellation class aircraft built by Lockheed) crashed. But strangely enough no one is much worried and the Hercules paint shop frequently has reserve pilots practicing touch and go landings on that strip all day long.
Yep folks, when it comes to danger, reserve pilots got to be the worst. (That's a joke.) So as you muddle through all of this and still wonder why you don't have a Sports Park or an Aquatics Facility, just pay attention to who is fanning the flames of irrational fears. I don't need to tell you who that is, it's all plainly stated in the article above. Ahh, retirement is starting to sound better and better. Have fun now tearing what I have said apart and discrediting my character with unfounded insults and allegations that I am in someone's pockets. You don't find me threatening to sue anyone now do you? Have a wonderful day and I am anxious to see how you respond. Oh, and Ubbo. You are the big airplane enthuasist, has anything I have said about these airports untrue? Dave Hardesty
To whom it may concern:
The Serpa legend goes on, his family has been here for generations and he can do a good job for Tracy, but he lives in Danville. And right behind his story line is Dave Hardesty and is on going elongated comments. t. b
The Water Park... if you recall were voted away to the Surland/Lea Serpa. No Water Park at the Holly site.
I did propose while ago about low water usage such as chute slides and so on. NO POOL. But water is an issue, less usage, the better. So far the proposed plans are: Wetlands Sports Park Lot of land for additional parks Agric-Museum Bike Trails If the opponents had been paying attention, they would not be asking questions? Holly and what Lea Serpa was asking for are two different issues. Let them build it themselves, they wanted those plans, let them finish those plans without turning it around and use the Water Park as a bargaining tool. I had stated my views on that before. Those who paid attention would have known that I did not approve of the way it was being handled. Voted it away to give them the opportunity to turn it around back to us as a "bargaining" tool. Not right, in my view. Holly Site are free of developers. It just seems the city council members are spending too much of their valuable time WITH THE DEVELOPERS when they should be taking CARE OF THE CITY OF TRACYITES! Was that part of the campaigning promise at the officials last elections? -amy
Surland, CA 95377. City hall and council are on the path to shutting down the airport. This is a direct conflict. No city allows or builds residential in a flight path. I do believe it is also a federal law. But once again, it is the Brent Ives and Amigos show!
The fact that city hall is decided Surland over the Airport. The writing is on the wall. Next is the shut down of the Airport.
Was that part of the campaigning promise OF the officials last elections?
Sorry, caps for correction. Thanks -amy
Amy
What are you talking about? Ellis project has NOT been approved or the aquatics center DA - that's what the meeting was about - workshop to discuss - NO approval yet, still discussing, so you can choose to advocate or not, still time Amy.
Just saying it is two separate issues.
Not going to deal with Lea Serpa/Surland/Ellis/Alvarez/AKT. Just voiced my disapproval on how it was voted away and then it was turned around and used as a bargaining tool. Just wanted to make sure readers understood Holly and Lea Serpa are two different issues. -amy I thought everyone was fighting over developers and backroom deals and the Holly site was free and clear. What gives? First commentor's question. Therefore the answers I supplied. Thanks. -amy
Amy
What are you talking about? It was NOT VOTED AWAY it has not been approved. I'm not asking you to "deal" with Les Serpa (why do you keep calling him Lea?) or AKT/Souza. That's what we're trying to break free of right "deals"? Almost three years working on this developer deal, three more years best case scenario to get it built. I thought you all said HOLLY was going to be very speedy, so why not put swim center there? It's not two different issues for Tracyites. It's needed public facilities that haven't been provided.
That part of the territory I am unfamiliar with, just making sure the Holly is not to be confused with any developers.
Holly... did the EIR come back yet? Procedures to get it done takes time? One step at a time? Nothing is "speedy" in Tracy, that much I have noticed. Lea Serpa's name was in the article? Question was asked, and I answered. Just wanted to make sure there is no confusion about the Holly site. -amy
The water park was going to be part of the Holly site at the beginning of the discussion in finding next best site for Sports Park, but that was taken off the agenda when it was voted away to Surland by the majority of the vote. So No Water Park, you see why I got mad??? But then when I learned of water usage, the price hike on the water bill, (REMEMBER???) That changed my view point.
Okay back to the article? Just verifying Holly has nothing to do with this article? -amy
His name is LES with an S, it does not say LEA with and A in the article. What is wrong with you Amy? Why don't you answer why you refer to him as LEA with an A, because his name is LES with an S Amy as you well know right?
FYI, City of Tracy hasn't even begun the EIR process on the HOLLY site. Why aren't HOLLY supporters questioning why? If swim center was at HOLLY site then takes it out of the hands of the developers and deals right Amy?
"It's needed public facilities that haven't been provided."
And exactly why have they not been provided? Who keeps throwing wrenches in the gearworks every time something like a Youth Sports Park or an Aquatics Facility or the Dr. Powers Swimming Pool Replacement Project has been talked about? Who specifically are the people who keep getting in Counsel's way of attemting to get these types of facilities on line and working? I don't need to tell the general public who these people are. If they have been paying attention to what has happened over the last 12 years they should know exactly who these people are unless they are completely brain dead. Amy, yes, the Serpa and the Sousa developments are two seperate deals. You are absolutely correct on that point. But just look at who continually attacks both of these developers while secretely promoting their own development deals. To me that's a good indicator as to where the real problem lays. But you can go along and ignore it if you wish and it will probably be another 12 years or so before you see any progress along those lines. Also, if Federal Avation Laws are being broken, why is it that new fields like the one in Everett Washington can get away with what they have done? Dave Hardesty
Is anyone worried about the simple fact that people are judging the amount of profit a company makes and that governments are justifing the investigation to the them how much they should make. Just seems wrong, what happen to the freedoms of a republic????
Wow, thanks for pointing the error in spelling, have friend at work named Lea, it stucked on me, sorry for that big error!
LES SERPA Thanks Dave for the explanation. -amy
How about the city employees working full time for Serpa over the 2years. We as tax payers are supporting this developer.
Developer Welfare! I wonder if there are any "developers" complaining, on here. If so, did they do anything for Tracy in the last ten years??? Did somebody lose a "bright" idea? WATTson, come in here!
Cheers!
Why would city hall and Brent Ives Amigos give away any permits much less all of them to one Developer?
Digging a hole in the ground and filling it full of water is not an even trade! The keys to the city and the boarding up of the Tracy Airport is next!
A pool by the airport? NO WAY!
I also wonder why everyone is so concerned about one developer or another doing the deal. After, it's what developers do My point exactly Dave, from previous accusations concerning other subjects which I won't talk about here. I agree with Malcolm that the aquatics center should be put at the Holly site. I have no idea why I was under the assumption it would be but it makes sense to me to put it there. I was wondering why Serpa would give(?) 20 mil for a pool. Just put it at Holly. Sneaky. Keep the airport. Hey, Les Serpa could buy the land and put in the pool and run it himself!
maybenotdumBcommenT
You missed the point apparently. I don't believe the .58 miles, at the closest possible proximity to the end of the runway, is a problem to worry about when it can be very easily demonstrated that a lot of much larger and busier airports have their runway thresholds away from the general public and are not having any safety related problems with them what so ever. If you go to Holly, because of the water table in that area, I would recommend an above ground pool, of which there are many in operation around the country and don't have any problems in their operations. The point is what is acceptable risk? If you are looking at no risk then stay in bed and don't get out of it. But then you run the risk of dying for lack of physical exercise so that might not be a very good idea either.
OOPS! Forgot some crucial datum. The thresholds of the runways I am talking about, in some cases, is less than 500 feet. That is not very far compared to just slightly over one half mile even should they build on the property as close as they physically can.
Dave Hardesty
Skippy hasn't mentioned HOLLY for quite awhile - so very odd, I thought he supported being free of developer deals. He was the HOLLY cheerleader, what happened. Sour on HOLLY now? He said it would be "the destination" in Tracy - why not swim center destination? Something doesn't smell good.
Perhaps Skippy is waiting like the rest of us for the wheels of government to grind. It's not an instantaneous process and doesn't happen in the blink of an eye.
You place emphasis on the things you have influence over. But when you are done you just have to wait patiently like the rest of us for things to get done. Perhaps ole Skippy will elaborate on this further and put your mind to rest. Just have a little patience. After all, I was a Holly cheerleader and you haven't heard much about Holly from me, in so far as where the project is at present. Hope this helps you. Oh, and I'm still a Holly Supporter. I am just not completely sold on the idea that a fully functional Aquatics facility, with large swimming pools, is the best location. I also feel it would be an idea worth considering placing a public facility on the south side of town as well. But I am not totally against the idea of such a facility at the Holly location either. It's feasible. Dave Hardesty
Well IF the pool is going to be at Holly's I don't want Surland to name it! Water Park, Residents can come up with a name for it?
Just feeling like Tracyites are in the tanglement with the city and developers, slowly being strangled out of their wishes? Long timers have waited long enough! At least it will be back on the drawing board if it is going to be placed at Holly, not aware of that part. Thanks. -amy The point is what is acceptable risk? If you are looking at no risk then stay in bed and don't get out of it. But then you run the risk of dying for lack of physical exercise so that might not be a very good idea either. That last comment was a weird thing to say Dave. I go to In-Shape. And the pool(Holly) is for the kids mostly, and families. Just trying to be mean? I'm not sure, you added the wink. And where are all the people that should be scolding Dave for mentioning the water table that apparently doesn't pose a harm for the Holly Sports park. I said that about the pool Dave because some people around here say that won't be a problem. So is it or isn't it? Malcolm, I noticed TRN suspiciously quite as well. hmmm. This is up your alley TRN to discredit our views.
3,850 homes x $400,000. That's a rough guess as to the profit Serpa will make per home. It may be more. With that, Serpa will deduct $20 million for a water park. He's going to have more than enough to be able to keep his home in Danville from foreclosure. That's the rumor I've heard, also that he's close to broke.
I look at the photo of him and I don't trust the man. I also don't trust Ives and his croonies....excluding Abercrombie. I think I'll look for residence in another city that doesn't harbor corrupt city officials. IMHO
Malcolm,
Was that a hint? Waiting for "skippy's" comments? Why are you waiting to see what "Skippy" says next? You may be more interested in what your favorite candidate has to say, we haven't heard from Garamendi, on here, yet; unless you are Garamendi? I thought she said she might bring jobs in the year 2015? Looking at the article about the courthouse idea and not seeing that it will bring many jobs per year. Also didn't like the idea that there was not much conversation regarding the fact that there is going to be problems with parking, traffic, "social element", and a TPD problem. Which candidate can bring jobs? That's the real question for Tracy, these days. A Holly Sports Park will help bring jobs. One sporting good store already closed (over at the Home Depot parking lot). Did Garamendi speak about the sports park at the Jun 15th or Jul 1st Council meeting? Why not? It was on her agenda? How will she bring jobs to Tracy? Did you read the whole article? Will another lawsuit ensue? I'm just wondering....
And I'll have more to say on it later. Oh, and don't wait up for me! Also, I didn't make any campaign promises to you. Maybe you could tell your favorite candididate to come up with her own original ideas, instead of waiting for it, here? Hope that helps!
maybenotdumBcommenT and Malcolm
Anywhere you dig in the Tracy area you will have water table issues to mitigate. If you want an above ground pool in the Holly Sugar area, it might be the easiest way to mitigate that issue, if it really is an issue at all. In the particular area where I live, close to the geographic center of Tracy and several miles from the Holly facility, the local ground water table is about 14 feet below the surface. Many of the homeowner pools in my area have had problems with the water table as a result. I don't personally know what the water table over at the Ellis site is but would imagine its way below 14 feet and would expect the Holly site to be higher. Not high enough to cause flooding but certainly high enough that it would have to be mitigated for any below ground structure like a large swimming pool. Most certainly the water table isn't a problem for facilities sitting on top of the ground and not extending some 20 feet into the ground. And yes, the City owned property at the Holly site is certainly large enough to accommodate an Aquatics facility if that is what the people really want and the Counsel agrees. My comments about acceptable risk were to illustrate that we all take risks. Nothing is perfect and nothing is without some form of risk. Glad you exercise, you will probably live longer and have a much healthier life. But you could just as easily be crushed by a defective weight machine or keel over from a heart problem as well. Happens all of the time and you read about such things as well. Does that prevent you from exercising? No and it shouldn't, unless of course the risk becomes unacceptable.
That's what I mean about acceptable risk and how we generally live our lives. For example, I don't smoke. I don't think it’s a healthy thing to do. For me smoking is an unacceptable risk. But I do eat and do worry about my eating habits as well. So I take an acceptable risk to go ahead and eat. But you know, I could choke to death and you could have a traffic accident on your way to In Shape City.
The wink was associated with acceptable risk. I placed it where it was placed because some people, like lester1, seem to think I am angry. I am not, it's just my style of writing and I use the winkey in an attempt to portray my emotions at the time. After all, they are call emocons are they not? I hope this clarifies my point.
With respect to my, “kids and families,” comment. Ok, you tell me, who do you think will get the most usage out of such a facility?
There are therapeutic warm pool users that could benefit from such a facility. But how many are there? There are also the swim teams, but how many are there compared to a general population that would like to use such a facility? That's why I said mostly kids and families. They are the people that will use such a facility the most and it is they who, in the end, that are really paying for it. I wouldn't worry too much about TRN A.K.A. Skippy. He may be busy today. As for me, my equipment is up and running. My upgrade projects are on track and because we are conducting some critical tests and simulations I don't really have much else to do. My employer can't let me take off and go home because if something happens I have to be here to rectify the problem. But my employer isn't so anal as to expect me to twiddle my thumbs to entertain myself while waiting for something to do, so they allow me the Internet access to make comments here. You guys really need to stop all this senseless worry about what other people are up to during their daily routines and concentrate on what you are doing don't you think? Have no fear, I am quite sure Skippy, gosh I like the sound of that, which is why I use it, will be around with his comments. Have no fear, unless something tragic has occurred I am quite sure he will be back in his own irritating little way.
In Ubbo's case, and you all know I frequently communicate with him so it's no big secret, I know he has been very busy with his job and regrets he can't come and play with the rest of us.
But he assures me he will be back. Just give them a little time. Have fun and thanks for the questions. (I am in a good mood lester1) Dave Hardesty
To whom it may concern:
What a bunch of Jackass's they are lying through their teeth. Tolbert knows the cost of the RGA's are worth $65,000 each. She's the one who stated that she wanted to know what the value of the RGA'S were. She knew and she's the one who wanted affordable housing. They just played games with each others minds. Bill Dean and Andrew Malick know the prices, why didn't the answer. Even the new City Manager has some doubt, on the values of the RGA'S. t. b The people are really getting tired of the deception. t. b
Tom Benigno,
Not all the councilperson's are Democrats. If you were to poll the councilpersons you might find that there exists, a mixture of political variety. I thought you knew about that? In addition to the "jackasse's" that you mentioned. Some are elephants some are Independants.
3850 homes x 10,000 rgas per home =38,500,000.00 in free services -Water, Sewer, roads, electric, gas to add to the infrastrucure = The Great City Hall give away!
$10,000.00 per rga -
10000 x 8000 = $80,000,000.00 free RGAS to Surland - Pretty damn sweet deal for Surland. Why is our council and Brent Ives giving Surland anything? What is the deal? ANYONE ASK THE COUNCIL WHY WE ARE GIVING A PROJECT THAT IS ON COUNTY LAND - All the Building Permits for the next 20yrs? What do they get for the deal?(Dont tell me a hole in the ground with water is the what we get.... What is the tit for tat deal from Surland to the AMigos? Fur trimmed toilet seats? Start the airport countdown... I say the city will be closing the airport by 2010... And the next Greyhound out of Dodge will be arriving at the proposed transit station loading dock at 1800 hrs. Please have your tickets readily available for the conductor to check. Hey I just thought of something. Once, ok if ever, a train is scheduled to arrive at the transit station we can be the first city to run our city government out of town on a rail! Yeeehawwww!
TRN<
I have no idea what you are babbling about. None of the INDUMBANTS get my vote. They are working overtime to screw us before they leave office...Same idiots employed at city hall to self serve Surland! Surland, CA 95377
To whom it may concern:
TRN: That is not what I implying, the Jackass's that I'm writing about are not in the Democrat party. The one's that I'm talking about are special interest RINO'S, lets call them RINOASS's. Got it? t. b
Eric Firpo's report on the joint City Council/Planning Commission meeting regarding the proposed Surland development agreement has stirred a great deal of debate. Allow me to touch on some issues that have not been addressed in great detail. First of all, I want to be clear that I am not an advocate for the Ellis, Tracy Hills or any other specific project. I am an advocate for the City of Tracy to improve the negative image it has in the business/investment community. Sadly, Tracy is viewed as a town that is difficult to business with. One need look no farther than the recent economic opportunities that Manteca and Stockton are enjoying to see the result of that negative perception.
The meeting in question exhibited several examples of how we can do a better job of treating those who would invest in our community. During a recent workshop, city staff discussed a plan on how to divide up the 600 RGA per year pie in a manner that would be fair to all of the concerned development interests. To my pleasant surprise, all concerned parties agreed in concept (with details to be worked out), even with a provision that should any "in fill" projects emerge they would be given priority, thus taking RGA's away from other developments. At Tuesday's meeting there was mention that the development agreement being considered would also place Ellis in a "priority" status, something not part of the previous discussions. The important part is not the pros or cons of Ellis enjoying priority status (let the development community hash that out with the city.) The important part is that there needs to consistency and clarity on this and other issues.
Should an "infill" project come on line in a few years, just how will it impact the RGA count of the other projects? The business people making these investments should know what the rules are going in. We are talking about residential development now, but the same holds true for the commercial and industrial development Tracy so desperately needs. Investors willing to put up millions of dollars don't have the time or patience to play guessing games.
I hold the city staffers working on these issues in high regard and I am confident they will fix these problems. I am afraid I am not as confident about correcting the anti-business bias exhibited by some council members. There was plenty of questioning about why Surland would receive more RGA's (1,600ish) than the Ellis project needs, with the clear implication that Surland might be pulling a fast one.
When asked directly about the excess RGA's, Les Serpa explained that the original proposal was for less land and money for the aquatics center in exchange for fewer RGA's, but the city had upped the ante, wanting a larger facility. (Not reported by Mr. Firpo.) Yet Serpa was put on the defensive regarding this issue.
The final straw was when council member Sundberg asked Serpa if it would "break his heart" if he didn't get the extra 1,600 RGA's. After months of negotiating with city staff using a specific concept, is it appropriate for a council member to independently change the direction of the negotiations during an open meeting? If the council decided to appoint one of their own to conduct negotiations, fine. I don't believe that was the case. The question represented a "bait and switch" tactic. Whether it was Les Serpa or any other business person before the council, that was shoddy treatment. (But then again, it's not the first time.) Rest assured, the investment community is watching how Tracy does business. The turnaround in how we are perceived has to start with the leadership of the council. In at least on case, it didn't happen Tuesday night.
Tom Benigno, the blogger who passes himself off as what?:
You and the blogger named "what?" ever take a pledge to not swear at those who serve our city???
TP,
Will another lawsuit ensue? Will there be a follow up story on the latest lawsuit against the city? Will this be the third or fourth? I lost count now? Also, would it be conflict of interest if Connolly were to sue the city, given that his wife Garamendi is a candidate for office, now? Also, please run a story on where the money went (if any) from any of the previous lawsuits? Did you guys ever really cover any of that? Need more details, if applicable, please? Thanks! What the ...!!! "The final straw was when council member Sundberg asked Serpa if it would "break his heart" if he didn't get the extra 1,600 RGA's. After months of negotiating with city staff using a specific concept, is it appropriate for a council member to independently change the direction of the negotiations during an open meeting?"
Michael Maciel,
Thank you for your comments (in your above post!)!! Thanks for bringing us this insight. Unfortunately I was unable to make the Tue. meeting, or watch it on the telly, yet. I will say I have been appalled at what has been going on. There seems to be so much force at work to deter what's best. Why? I have no idea how anything can get dowe in the city with the obstructionism and other factors, at work. Disgusting! IMHO I very much appreciate that you are also vigilant toward keeping us informed! Thank you for your efforts, Mike !!!
To the blogger who calls him/her self "what?":
I believe you are giving out misinformation on Serpa. Serpa would probably not appreciate that. The 8000 permits (you charged) was mentioned regarding Alvarez deal (or "plan") in the July 1st City Council meeting. You may want to take a look at this article and read the comments, under the article to find out more. Hopefully the TP will run a story and we can get more details ASAP so that you do not continue to spread mistruth. Here's the article: http://tracypress.com/content/view/15375/2244/ (see the comments under the article, until TP does follow up story) Thanks!
Regarding the airport runway safety issue: Aren't small planes involved in more crashes than large commercial jets?
Not knocking pilots or anything, just seems I read about small planes crashing much more than big jets. Comparing Tracy airport to San Jose or Oakland is apples and oranges in my view. There are small airports all over the country that are near housing developments, would have to check FAA records to see what crash stats are.
fortheunderdog you are so right about old Les all he cares about is puting more in pocket, thats why now that we are retied were moving back to montana, we only paid 71,900 for our place in country. Its heaven.
I pledge to stop swearing as soon as the elected leaders START serving the people of Tracy...Not Surland!
Damn!
Brent Ives and the City Hall are a bunch of Self Serving Idiots!
Will the free RGAS and building permits be offered to any other builders that are currently in the city limits, or just Surland? A county project!
Has City Hall disclosed the plans for the Tracy Airport? What is the 10 year plan for the airport on the COG - LAFCO report?
What is the INCENTIVE package for the civic employees at city hall to work full time on this county project? The directives are coming from council to department heads. What will they get out of this deal? What are the council members receiving for the project?
I am sitting here feeling amused.
How many developers own planes? Anyone on the city council? ANY running candidate? Or their spouse? Just when the people tried to do something good about the airport, the events held there, ...... then the fight over it....What's up with that? Would it be good for business in the future? Many big business (out of towners) owners would want to check their "bases"? I sure hope that Les Serpa does not arm twist anyone into giving in! Tolbert did say she didn't see any reason for Les Serpa to have that 1600 permit....why is he still on it? NOT A GOOD TIME TO BUILD ANY HOUSES AT THIS TIME AND HOLD OFF ON THE PERMITS!!! Tracyites, first, remember. -amy -amy
To the blogger who passes him/her self off as "what?":
I dodn't see $ 80 Million dollars mentioned. I think you are giving out lots of misinformation here. Please show facts, websites, and references.
Written by Michael Maciel:
"After months of negotiating with city staff using a specific concept, is it appropriate for a council member to independently change the direction of the negotiations during an open meeting?" I don't agree and here's why. The City Council was reviewing the almost three years behind closed doors development agreement worked out between Surland and City Staff. The City Council is supposed to then vote on the agreement. The City Council is supposed to be a POLICY making body and the agreement dictates POLICY on this project. Abercrombie and Tolbert also questioned the 1600 extra RGA's as well as Sundberg. If the sole purpose of the Council in Mr. Maciel view is to rubberstamp the City Staff's work then why even have Councilmembers? BTW, the extra 1600 RGA's are one of the aspects of the agreement that make it illegal according to CEQA. So if Mr. Maciel is elected in November he should prepare to understand CEQA. It is not only appropriate to conduct POLICY discussions in an OPEN meeting it should be the rule of thumb.
To the blogger who passes him/her self off as "what?":
Read the comments by Dave Hardesty, under the article, here: http://tracypress.com/content/view/15375/2244/ This may explain where you got your figures? Thanks!
To the blogger Skippy who passes himself off as Tracy RealNews:
Have you turned against the HOLLY site for all good things? Dave has shown you how to do pools at HOLLY. Don't forget about your joyfest with HOLLY. Don't go SOUR on HOLLY, remember how SWEET you thought HOLLY was? Are you wondering why NO EIR process yet on HOLLY? Takes 12-18 months, better get started right?
Malcolm,
I disagree with your stance on Maciels insight and here's why. You have provided misinformation about CEQA in the past, on here; where you provided the CEQA website in reference to a question that was posed to you. The questoin was asked of you to show reference why you thought the city should provide an EIR on all sports park locatoins. That was also not shown to be accurate according to the CEQA reference you provided.
Why all the fuss over 1600 permits that is done openly...
... when Sundberg and Tolbert wouldn't even give a yes/no answer on the "8000" permits, regarding the Alvarez "plan"??? Perhaps there is more to the story than meets the eye? Just glad that I didn't share a booth with Councilperson Sundberg.
Why can't anything get done at city hall?
Are there too many secrets??? What does this article have to do with it? They were discussing more RGUs at the Jul 1st Council meeting and nobody complained about that?? The number of permits was mentioned to be about "8000", if I recall correctly?
I thought it bad enough to try to figure those two women out when they voted down Holly only to find out the reasons behind it much later. The 8,000 homes and "Keenan" Developer.... Open transparency???... don't think so?
Would you trust anyone who officially withheld the information from the public, that is the removing power of true choices among the voters that benefits the opportunists, no matter what party? -amy
City Staff has been working exclusively for Surland Cos. for the past three years. Civic eployees working for (on the tax payers dollar) free for a private developer. Sweet Deal!
Does anyone else think that there's an even BIGGER problem with this picture? It might be that nothing can get done in Council, because certain candidates have too much to hide? I don't know? Just a thought? http://tracypress.com/content/view/15375/2244/ But, do you trust someone who can't tell you a yes/no answer to a question? If it were you being asked about a "plan" for "8000" permits, how would you respond? A.) "SILENCE?" B.) "DON'T DRAG ME INTO IT!" C.) No. I had nothing to do with that. D.) "Guilty as charged!" Given the logic presented to you I cannot even begin to fathom why you would put yourself out there to defend Sundberg and Tolbert, when they haven't done the same for themselves??? I see comments here from those who are asking questions and observed that those pointing fingers at the City are not pointing fingers back at Sundberg and Tolbert... You might want to start asking that your councilpersons (Sundberg and Tolbert) to start answering the questions they were asked about the "plan" for "8000" permits. http://tracypress.com/content/view/15375/2244/ Until you demand "transparency" from ALL the candidates, then YOUR favorite candidate(s) platform's does NOT have a leg to stand on! Good luck in November!
To the blogger who passes him/her self off as "what?" :
Please provide facts, websites, and references. I think you have been working exclusively with Miss Information for too long? Thanks!
Skippy, don't misquote me, what is wrong with you? I did provide the CEQA web link, why not, anybody can find it just GOOGLE. I did not say every site should be EIR'd or that it was required, that was another blogger. What I said was, pick two sites (I didn't care which ones) and whichever site was the safest, healthiest and most cost efficient should be pursued.
As for the 1600 non Ellis RGA's - by law they are required to have specific descriptions of density, intensity of use, maximum height, size of buildings, etc. They don't.
Yes Cheri,
Could you verify 8,000 for me too? Seems like an outrageous sum, I'm certainly NOT in favor of 8,000 more homes or 3,850 (Surland) or 5,500 at Tracy Hills. Maybe it's 800 - that would be better, smarter.
Yes, Cheri, I'd like to know, too. Thought it was 800 at first, too, but was told it's in the 8,000 range, need accuracy, thanks.
-amy
Not much time now, big day.
Is that number included in the city council report of the last meetings? Thanks. -amy
Skippy,
You were the one that posted the 8000 number in the post above! Not me.. RGA value is around $10,000.00 - Brent Ives is giving them away for free!
To whom it may concern:
The cost of permits in the 90's was $30,000 how is now they are only worth $10,000? The figure is $65,000 each, under the general plan of 6.5 houses per acre. Figure that out folks. t. b
RGA value is separate from Permits
RGA - Around $10,000.00 per home Permits - $50,000.00 - 85,000.00per home - Depending of sq ft and city planning and the BS city buildings fee. Free to Surland - Surland, CA 95377 what?
what?
what?
"...
written by monster dad 3K , July 31, 2008 Regarding the airport runway safety issue: Aren't small planes involved in more crashes than large commercial jets? Not knocking pilots or anything, just seems I read about small planes crashing much more than big jets. Comparing Tracy airport to San Jose or Oakland is apples and oranges in my view. There are small airports all over the country that are near housing developments, would have to check FAA records to see what crash stats are." Apparently you are guilty of telling a partial truth but very well may have done so unknowingly. (intended to be a good natured response) First of all I never mentioned OAK (Oakland) in my earlier discussion. Oakland has a seperate field for commercial avation and Civil/private avation. Don't believe me ask any one with a pilots lisense. Oddly enough though, their Civil/private avatiaion field does come in very close proximity to residential and commercial business on their approches and departures to their runways. You may want to check that facility in your quest for information. As to the other airport you mentioned, SJC (San Jose) they have far more private avatiation traffic arriving and departing from their runways than Tracy does, so in that instance my comparison of Tracy to SJC is not an apples to oranges comparison. It's good that you are thinking the issue though and as you do research to disprove what I have said you may discover something that might actually change your opinion. Also, all of the other airports that I mentioned, including the field at Moffett, supply services to Civil/private avation as well as the other commericial and or military traffic they handle. Just thought you might like to know. Please, get back with your information as it will certainly help others to make up their mind on the safety issues around the Tracy Airport. Dave Hardesty
...
"written by Malcolm , July 31, 2008 Written by Michael Maciel: After months of negotiating with city staff using a specific concept, is it appropriate for a council member to independently change the direction of the negotiations during an open meeting?" Malcolm First of all Mike is not asking you to disagree or agree. He is asking a question. See the question mark? In context with what Mike was saying in the rest of his comments it seems he is concerned with the way Counsel portrays itself, in particular Counsel Member Irene Sundburg, in doing business with anyone. Please note. Mike took the time to explain that Serpa had been in negotiations in good faith with City Staff and he felt the problems with encountered with those negotiations, which should be private between the two interested parties at this phase as all such negotiations between such entities are because of a lot of private things being discussed pertaining to the business in the negotiation. He explicitly explained that it did nothing to show other businesses that might consider bringing business to Tracy if they would be allowed to negotiate in good faith and then be sandbagged with questions by a Counsel Member, who is most likely coached by someone else. The questions asked were not any part of the negotiations the company had when they were in the negotiation phase with the City behind those closed doors. |
I thought everyone was fighting over developers and backroom deals and the Holly site was free and clear. What gives?
So who's pocket is Les Serpa in? The council members that voted for the park or is this water park being built on some other land? I thought there was going to be a big pool included at Holly.