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| Math plan doesn’t add up |
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| Written by Scott Hurban / For the Tracy Press | |
| Tuesday, 15 July 2008 | |
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A requirement to teach eighth-graders algebra makes no sense in a resource-strapped state. EDITOR, Our governor has recently mandated that all eighth-graders will learn Algebra 1. This is a poor decision on many levels. California is already suffering from a shortage of qualified math teachers. Mandating even more math at an earlier age will only exacerbate the shortage and put an even greater burden on local educators who already are stretched to the limit with other mandates. Also, when the state is suffering from enormous deficits and cuts in educational funds are looming, why create more costs for education? The main reason this is a bad idea is that most students have not yet developed enough high-level functioning skills to grasp such an abstract concept as algebra. Understand that children begin by seeing the world literally (this is why they can believe in Santa Claus) and only later begin to comprehend higher-level thinking skills. I teach English-language learners. It would be absurd for me to ask them to read and understand William Shakespeare when they are just learning to decode English. Amazingly, I am supposed to do just that! Ultimately, I must teach my students at the level they can understand, not based on an arbitrary mandate. Requiring eighth-graders to learn algebra may be good politics, but it is bad pedagogy. Scott Hurban, Tracy Trackback(0)
Comments
(49)
I see that no opportunity to attack religious faith can be neglected. Why don't you read,"Evidence that Demands a Verdict" by Josh McDowell. It was his attempt, as a confirmed agnostic, to refute the Ressurection of Jesus Christ. In the end he became a confirmed Christian. Why don't you look into the coming back from the dead reports coming out of Florida and reported by mainstream media. They are available on the internet. While you have presented atheisitc websites that propagandize your own dogma, yes I have looked some of your suggestions up and read them, why don't you read,"Darwin's Black Box" yourself and not rely on the views of others. You might also do a study of many of the verified miracles of the Catholic Church.
As far as child development goes, we teachers have spent a good part of this year studying human development, which was also part of my credentialing classes several years back. Finally, and what is the most important to me, is that my personal experience and that of my fellow educators is that it is just too soon for many of the students, not all, to be learing algebra.
Finally, I have found a good many of the research reports that come out to be merely vehicles of propaganda with certain research methodology guaranteed to get the desired answer and with a built in predetermined presupposition of the data. We teachers are a cynical lot who have been told on numerous occasions that we ought to accept certain findings because they are researched based only to discover hey don't work when applied in the classroom. They are shortly discarded for the next fad.
Scientists, although they may consider themselves the last elite group who are objective, are subject to the same dogmatic biases as the rest of us. That is why we are living in postmodern times as people are losing faith in science as they are all institutions.
Math is taught to students based upon their level of abstraction. We wouldn't teach calculus before algebra. Each stage s considered to be more complex and abstract. However, I do agree that the minds ability to abstract at any age is a true miracle beyond our understanding. We know it takes place because it is measurable, but the why we are able to learn can never go beyond theory.
Mr. Hurban,
Although you and I may disagree on other issues, we are right on the ball with this issue. I totally agree with your position stated in this letter. As a fellow educator, I am also frustrated with this plan. Isn't funny how our politians all of sudden become education experts once they arrive in Sacramento?
Thank you rnbwal and I agree about Sacramento. This is my great criticism of politics in general. People with little expertise makes choices for people far away and they are almost always wrong because of it. Politcs is about giving people what they think they want regardless of whether it is the right thing to do or not.
This was what was wrong with No Child Left Behind as well
I also agree with this letter. As a homeschooler I taught Algebra to my 8th grader this year and while she didn't struggle with it too much I did find that another form of math would have been better for her. She's excellent at math, advanced really. But I believe this fast paced teaching of our children isn't healthy. Why is it such a big deal that little 2nd grade Jimmy can read at a 6th grade level? Why are we teaching kids simple math in Kindergarten? What happened to stories, songs, play, color recognition, simple counting? I've seen some schools that are introducing addition and subtraction before 1st grade. Why? Do we need our children to grow up that quickly? I have read many articles that talk about how healthy play is to young children and that introducing certain academics too early can do more harm than good all the way up through high school. I didn't pass Algebra until I was a senior. I was a much better English/Lit. student and preferred that to math. I tried Algebra in 8th grade and hated it so much that I had to take it over and over until Senior year. Terrible.
Some Algebra concepts are introduced as early as 2nd grade. Pre-Algebra is 7th grade curriculum in California today. Are 7th graders ready for it? Should they be developmentally? Many are not. Yes, Algebra is procedural and for some students easy. And sometimes it is easiest for those students who can find help at home.
It is likely true that individuals farthest away from the classroom are poor decision makers. Algebra should be offered for 8th graders who are ready, but it probably should not be mandatory.
Quality teachers produce quality students.
How about hiring more Quality Math Teachers to better prepare the students for the Algebra so they would not find it so difficult to comprehend? THINK GOVERNOR! Pump up your brain! -amy
Scott: I guess I see no connection between your weird religious diatribe and my statement. The fact of religious faith is an area of great scientific interest. Here is a nice overview piece on magical thinking that mentions its relationship to dopamine:
http://psychologytoday.com/art...003&page=1 But other than that little misfire with developmental psychology, I tend to agree that a one-size-fits-all curriculum is a bad idea.
Mark. No diatribe. I was merely giving you an alternate list of possibilities that you ought to consider. Only you would consider what I said a diatribe. I merely postulate that Christianity has a good deal of evidence to back it up if one cares to look at the evidence. One needs to look at the Bible objectively in context and the historical evidence for miracles and the Ressurection
Not going into any religious debate.
Interesting to be reminded that even math was used in Biblical times. Math should be started as soon as the baby walks! Just Kidding  Math should be taught by quality teachers, where are they? Layoffs of teachers lead to lesser quality students, not a good idea! Does going global mean we will be inferior in math and end up with lower paying jobs? Other countries are superior in math and engineering. What is wrong with this picture? Why are the American children less valued as evidenced in the educational system by the Governor? -amy
Also, not trying to ignite religious debate but it is interesting to note that the biblical calculations for Pi are substandard even for the time period in which it was authored. It's sad to think that Archimedes’ calculations were superior to God's.
Sorry, Scott, it's a diatribe when you say:
I see that no opportunity to attack religious faith can be neglected I did no such thing. I merely described standard developmental psychology concerning several distinct issues. Also: While you have presented atheisitc websites that propagandize your own dogma, Absolutely not. I recently suggested a site that contradicted the movie Expelled. Please indicate otherwise. A little intellectual honesty would be helpful, here. But that's par for the course. In general, though, it is abundantly clear that you could do well to take a course or two in developmental psychology, psycholignuistics and developmental linguistics.
As a parent and an aid in a middle school I have to agree with Scott on this. My kids were all ready for algebra in 8th grade. My youngest is ready now, just going in to 7th. Still, I will not push to put him there. He will take pre-algebra with the rest of his classmates. It will give him a good foundation for smooth sailing in algebra.
A lot of kids are not ready though. Kids develop at different rates. You have the A.D.D or A.D.H.D. kid who is just trying to stay focused. That child is usually behind in language arts, but can do pretty well in math or technology. The language arts whiz kids may not do as well in math. Once you get the child with a neurological difference into about 5th grade math they start falling behind because of the word problems. Reading comprehention can slow those kids down in that type of math. We all have different strengths and weaknesses. When you try to force a child into an academic area that they are not good at they become uncomfortable and fearful. They feel stupid and shut down or act out. Take it from one who knows from my own life experience and from watching my children grow.
Scott's might need to go back to school on a number of other issues as well:
Each stage s considered to be more complex and abstract. Abstraction has many meanings, but the one relevant concerning mathematics is perhaps "expressing a quality apart from an object" (Websters). So some mathematics is concrete when it deals with word problems based on everyday occurrences (A train departs from Albuquerque at 10AM...). But under that description, most procedures in math are abstract: addition of two numbers is abstract, multiplication is abstract, etc. unless it invokes concrete referents for the quantities. Now, as for the question of complexity, is algebra more complex than arithmetic? Hard to say. It certainly empirically builds on other arithmetic operations as well as concepts like commutativity and associativity--taught in 3rd grade and pure abstract algebra notions. So we can conclude the following: some topics require an effective grounding in other topics. Are they inherently more abstract or complex? It's hard to say. I think I would rewrite this letter to not make bad claims about abstraction or developmental psychology. It would be more effective as an exercise in rhetoric.
God bless you Mark. you are absolutely obsessed with me and proving me wrong. I suggest people read your website and go see the movie,"Expelled" which I felt was quite good. Now many of the books you read clearly show you have an atheistic bent and many of the articles have an underlying theme of atheism and the foolishness of religion. you are looking for plausible deniability, but it is pretty obvious.
I am not going to argue the word abstraction with you, but this term was used in our credentialing classes in discussion od the development of the adolescent brain. If you wish to change it to win some nebulas confrontation with me, when this is not even the subject write on. It is becoming a bit humorous, but, then again sad that you see the need to confront me all the time. In a way, I am flattered. If you thought me a fool, you wouldn't take all this time. I am looking forward to many years of this. In the meantime, for your own sake and mental well being, seriously take into account those recommendations I ave you in terms of reading some Christian apologetics. If it isall nonsense, then you have read the alternative view for yourself. This is why I read your friend Hitchens, and have read the Qu'ran, Marx, etc. I believe in giving alternative views a fair hearing.
Mark, feel free to mention my grammar errors.
I will pray for you, that you find hope that exists past those few days we live and breath hear. Good night my friend.
Scott: Fair enough. That is the hostility I am familiar with. I haven't a clue why you generate one preposterously badly researched and reasoned letter after another. One thing you might consider is, as you write, whether or not there is any support for each of the propositions you put forth. Try to anticipate the counter-arguments and be prepared for them. As I suggest, if you had just jettisoned the central paragraphs about topics you don't have the background for, you would have done a fine job with the basic opinion piece.
Mark, I think people might be getting tired of the same old diatribe that I am incoherent in my logic and you might try something that doesn't sound so pompous. A recent supporter of your perspecitive even mentioned you came across as arrogant when you began doing quotes in German. That had to only edify you since few of the readers have a clue what you are trying to say.
Now letters are the art of persuasion and the empirical data of these blogs ( since you seem to worship empirical data) certainly indicates that I won the day as all letters, an unusual event, agreed with me. You see people don't care about research which is mostly propaganda ( at least when it comes to the psuedo-science psychology) or the present definition of the word abstract. If what I say makes sense to them, that is they have observed or experienced the same thing and I gave a logical explanation, that wins the argument. This is the basis of quantitative research If in your obsessed mind you feel you have triumphed, look at the data. By your own measures that simply is not true. Shall we graph it to compare those that agree with you and me? You would have 0, at least with these blogs. By the way, since know one else is blogging, it probably means you are only talking to yourself and me once we get started. Only a theory of course, but the hits have certainly tapered off. Good night my friend. I hope Dawson comforts you when you go to sleep.
One correction, people will support research findings when it supports their bias or they have observed what the research claims to have found.
Mark, may I recommend the book,"Quantum Learnig" which has quite a bit of research on the intellectual development of the mind. Feel free to go argue with them and tell them how stupid they are for not agreeing with you.
Oops! I meant Richard Dawkins can comfort you. A man who fights to keep religion out of politics ( an impossiblity since politcs involves morality)and ( you might correct me on this) believes in extending human rights to apes ( The Great Apes Project).
shurban,
I hate to burst your bubble but I firmly agree with Mark so I guess the number zero is not quite accurate on your part. From what I've read in your responses that's no surprise. Why the crack on Dawkin's? As a Christian I’m assuming you believe in a talking snake who had his legs taken away for misleading a woman, a 600 year old man building a boat for all the millions of animals on the earth, the Red Sea parting, Moses being given the 10 commandments on a mountain that doesn't even exist (did they find Mt. Sinai yet?) the walls of Jericho falling down so the Israelites could slaughter innocent men, woman, and children for living in the wrong place, a virgin birth, resurrecting the dead, and much more lunacy. Treating apes humanely seems tame in comparison.
Scott, I think people quit blogging because you two are like a couple of children with incredible vocabulary. It is like watching a verbal dirt clod fight. (growing up in central California, we had no snow. We used dirt clods as our weapons.) There is no need for anyone else to be involved. The argument was done long ago. Perhaps a 12 step program would help. O.A.O.A.....better known as On And On Anonymous.....Ha-ha-ha-ha! I crack me up!
Justin, as a Christian, I do believe in some of that stuff. I agree that some is far fetched....I don't believe in 600 year old people and so on. I do believe in a virgin birth and the resurection of Jesus. I know it sounds simple and illogical. I don't care that others see it that way. My faith is MINE.
Annie,
I am glad you have your faith and from what I have read in your posts you are politely exploring it. I was brought up in a Christian home and as I got older I could no longer reconcile what I had been told about God and the Bible with the world around me. Some people can. My view on faith is drawn somewhat from the famous quote, "The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason".
That is so true. How do we have faith in something we can not see? I can only know from my experience in faith. I have doubted in my life. Who hasn't? I have been brought to my knees by emotional pain and fear. During some of those times I truely felt God's presence. I felt Him speak to me. I have known people who have heard God's word and did what they were told. I have seen miracles come out of listening through prayer and meditation followed by action. For me, I know that I have experienced miracles.
You, too, Annie!!! I am not for organized religion either, but I do believe in God and Jesus. Man's word is not of God, but Word of God is God alone (speaking to you in your time of distress and giving you comfort) Jesus said that there is no man between us and God when it comes to worship. Meaning you can talk directly to God from your heart! (Not dictated by man) without the pomp of worship in organized religion.
I think you get the gist of what I am saying, I sure do understand what you said!!!  -amy
Amen! Religion comes in handy when you need that human support, but I don't do church now. It did not fit me well and I felt sad and lonely there. I can talk to God anywhere, anytime. I can listen better when I am alone.
Annie and Amy,
I'm really not trying to rain on your parade but I am curious how you will respond. I grant that both of you feel you have experienced miracles and that these experiences have assembled themselves into cornerstones of your faith. What the average Christian fails to enter into the equation is the needless suffering that occurs each and everyday. Every few seconds innocent children are dying of hunger, by the time I finish typing this comment it is a safe assumption that somewhere in the world a little girl has been kidnapped and raped. Where are their miracles? Are they being punished for their sins (This is a common answer to the question of suffering throughout the Bible) If God is omniscient and omnipresent why would he not intervene? Human beings are all far from perfect but I suspect most of us, given the ability, would bring an end to this type of needless suffering and yet God does nothing. We are left with random unsubstantiated claims of miracles often proclaimed by folks with an agenda, of course yourselves withstanding as I truly believe both of you are genuine in your belief. I'll leave you with a quote that Epicurus once wisely penned: “Is [God] willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then is he impotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then is he malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Whence then is evil?"
I do understand what you are saying,
Is corruption caused by God? I don't think so, man did. Were the wars caused by God? I don't think so, man did. A person speaks harshly to another breaking a person's spirit, was that of God? No. Again, man. Every person is responsible for their own action. Everyone of us has "free-will", how we use it is up us, for the good or for the bad? We only have our own choice in dealing with what is before us, not on worldly scale, God is on one to one relationship with each person when they let him. ("God never moves away from man, but man moves away from God") I chose the term God as the Omnipotent who knows all. Why were babies born deformed (caused by chemicals, DU, many factors, even genetics, that causes deformities? To increase our compassion? To reach out to hurting parents. There is a lesson in every case of why's I've learned. Many things are a blessing in disguise. I am human like everyone, I get mad, why?... it is time when I see injustice. It showed me the strength of my sense of justice. But when tired and hungry, I get cranky, too! Lots of "enlightenment" will come your way, seeing things how they really are, how you, yourself are and how , and go past that... like organized religion. Some people need structure in their lives, guided by the church teachings. I wonder what it is that about a Baptist Minister dancing with snakes in the church as shown on TV some time ago! Exploiting religion? I think so. Just my opinion. I just use the New Testament since I feel it contains the best advice given to us by Jesus. Good guide to live daily. Annie may have different story to tell you, this is my version of my own belief. Thanks. I just like knowing that I have God and Jesus at my side! When I feel Him speaking to be He first envelopes you with His extreme calmness and the soft silent words follow. For me "Evil" is when I intentionally make the wrong choices knowing it is not good for me or those around me.
In many other countries around the world the children learn from a curriculum that far out weighs ours. How come their kids can get through it and not ours? I believe we have a school system that needs an overhaul. We actually need to start teaching some things at an earlier age. Language for example should not wait until middle school and/or high school. That is something that young children should start beacuse they are able to soak it in like sponges. A school district in Massachusettes realizes that in the fulture China will be one of the top economic powers. So they are now teaching their kids Chinese (not sure what dialect) starting kindergarten so when they are in middle school they are just about fluent.
As far as math is concerned, we still can improve. I agree with teaching Algebra in 8th grade. However we need to build up to that by incorporating more math and math concepts a bit earlier so they are ready. The money concerns do not hold water with me beacause some kids are already taking Algebra in 8th grade and we pay to bus them over to the high schools for 1st period then back to their middle schools for the rest of the day. Why not just have it at the middle school already? One of the news shows did a piece on education around the world. In Belgium for example they have a stronger curriculum and their schools, like many European schools are run more like a business. If the teacher is not doing a good job, they are fired. This keeps them all running at a high level. The show gave SAT like tests to the Belgium students and to American students from a distinguished school. Guess what? The Belgium students scores were much higher. We can do better. We are underestimating the power of a young mind. The proof is in the pudding - if other countries can do it -why can't we? And by the way, where is the lottery money going? We need to overhaul that too. Set up a new contract with the lottery to get more $ for our schools.
Another money saving tip...Change the school calendar. Who sets that up anyway? STUPID. The school year should start the end of August or better yet after Labor Day. Like we all used to. Then get out the middle of June. Most of the time we do not need the air conditioning in June. We definitely need it in August. Two weeks of not having to run the air alone would save a lot of money. Also what about mini Mondays? Take them out alltogether. The children go the school full day on Monday's. Add the difference in hours up and have a couple more full days off during the year. Again a simple save in energy costs could go a long way.
Amy,
That's a very insightful perspective. Thank you for sharing. I'm not sure if I can vouch for the whole idea of "free will" in man. This is what troubles me, and it is discussed in the book Atheism: The Case Against God by George H. Smith, If you honestly believe God is omniscient, i.e. knows everything past, present, and future how can that be reconciled with the idea of free will in man? Put simply, if God already knows the future with infallible certainty than the future is predetermined and man is impotent to change it. He would already know who is going to heaven or hell, etc. Anyway, just some food for thought. Back to the subject at hand.
I think most middle schools in Tracy offer algebra. It is not required, but it is offered. My two oldest were not offered algebra in 8th grade. Now their school offers it and my youngest will be able to take it.
I never was taught that God knew the future. I was taught that we have free will. He created us with a purpose, but it is up to us to fulfill that purpose. If we make bad choices then we will not get to go to heaven. God does not punish us, but He does not protect us from ourselves. Justin, some of your questions were things I have asked myself and the religious staff at my church. As a child I felt that the world was so unjust. I don't have an answer as to why children suffer. I know it will be revealed to me when I am ready.
I am also mindful that all text, written materials were written by word of man on the subject of religion, too. Pro or cons.
-amy
Just wished we have robust economy to hire great teachers who would make learning math fun and more receptive to algebra!
-amy
Annie,
I disagree with your view of God not punishing humanity. There are a plethora of scriptures, especially in the Old Testament, that specifically show that God does indeed punish us and quite frequently. Many innocent Israelite men, women, and children were butchered by the Assyrians and Babylonians as punishment from God when Israel was conquered. Keep in mind this was after he had selected The Israelites as his “chosen people”. Could all of them really have really been that bad? Women and children? After all, God had promised to “show favor” to these people. Further examples of this sort of punishment concept can be found in many of the books of the prophets such as Isaiah, Hosea, Amos, etc. I think the story of punishment that I really find most problematic is the story of Job. We are all pretty much vaguely familiar with this particular story, but how many people really stop and think that, any way you want to cut it, Job was punished for no reason other than a callous celestial wager. Even the whole New Testament concept of Jesus being crucified was, in effect, to "scapegoat" all of humanities impending punishment. As much as I have tried in my lifetime I have yet to come across any suggested explanation that justifies this sort of cruel behavior from a deity who is supposed to “Love his children” and allegedly endorses “forgiveness”, but believe me I really have tried. I am to the point now that when I look at scripture all I can see is a very human book filled with contradictions and various other inaccuracies. All that being said, again, I am glad you find comfort in your faith. As they say, "To each his own". Thank you for responding.
I had thought along that same subject in the past, noticed that every leader tries to justify their inhumanity on "In the Name of God" as if God actually spoke to them to carry it out. In a sense, I don't think He is anything like that.
Leaders sometimes uses the word "God" knowing there are many believers out there, who can dispute one with "authority of God". That is where I have problems with. Radical Muslims using Allah to justify blowing themselves up... does the true Allah really want to see his own creation blown up? Taking control of such situation spells man's arrogance... by using the word God/Yahweh/Allah/Jehovah, what ever other names He has world over to justify their political gain. (taking over land, water and so on in the Biblical past). So much easier to "lead" people who are believers in the "Name of God" to justify inhumanity? -amy
Could we get off the religion discussion. It is way off the topic of this letter. We have gone astray. Let's stick to Algebra, our 8th graders and the school system.
Thought so, too, just got caught up in Annie's post, found something in common there! A kindred in our beliefs! Math is an important application in life, tool! Pounds per square inch for the tires, when driving.... for example. Reading the instructions well were lacking, too!
First, we need to get out of this national debt! We owe so much to China, Japan and UK. If China one day decide to visit and collect? Hope Not! Just feeling jittery with the direction our country is going. We are turning into an inferior nation, educationally, poor math skills, reading skills, comprehension, abstract thinking skills, and communication skills, leading to inferior jobs. If we had not been so busy "policing" the world, we would have more funds to hire more quality teachers who would make Math fun to the point the students would embrace challenges in facing new Math, Algebra! Thanks. -amy
Well, I blame Scott for leading this article off into the ether of religious craziness. I also can't understand nearly any of his counter-arguments because there are no counter-arguments just ad hominem attacks and rhetorical fallacies. Instead of responding to my original critique of two subordinate arguments to his original letter, he instead has not addressed any of those points.
Instead, he has hared off in a rambling series of incoherent, poorly spelled, and often grammatically incorrect attempts to attack me and associate my claims with weird religious associations. He also has appealed to the masses, to emotion, and to various authors who he can't even correctly name. I also looked up his reference to a book that might be called "Quantum Learning" (his spelling was suspect, as usual). There are a number of books by that title, including a series of self-help books and, possibly, one volume called Quantum Learning & Instructional Leadership in Practice that mentions current issues in brain research. Fair enough, but I think that anyone who claims an understanding of developmental psychology would at the very least acknowledge Piaget's notion of magical thinking as the more correct interpretation of Santa Claus, faeries and proto-religious beliefs. And possibly even do it in a coherent fashion
Mark,
A little off subject here, but what is your take on the works of Carl Jung? Have you had the opportunity to read any of his publications?
J281gt: I read the CJ Penguin Classic collection back in high school. I think Jung was a product of his times, like his friend Freud (Frazier, too). Archetypes are all the Victorian fascination with anthropology rolled up in the form of a Freudian cigar. In general, psychology did not begin to achieve any level of scientific validity until the cognitive era (post-Chomsky's attack on Behavioralism), and is only recently beginning to merge with a truly mechanistic theory of brain to present a coherent picture of how mind works.
So I would say that Jung was mostly wrong. Freud was mostly wrong. Skinner and Pavlov were partly wrong. EO Wilson was a bit overwrought. Witch burning was really wrong (that's a quick jab at Scott who is surely familiar with Thomas Szasz, as well read as he is!). But today, cognitive theory combined with evolutionary and developmental psychology, then cross-checked with solid neuroimaging, begins to achieve some level of mature science of mind and brain. This content has been locked. You can no longer post any comment.
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Second, the claim concerning literal thinking is not supported by most developmental psychology. While there are examples of cognitive errors related to notions of immediacy and persistence, the real phenomena that Scott is alluding to as far as Santa Claus is "magical thinking", which occurs in young children (< 7Y) and can continue into adulthood in some cases (see dopamine and its relationship to magical thinking). Indeed, religious ideation can be seen as an extension of this tendency combined with the obvious need (safety-wise) for very young children to fixate on the claims of their parents as true.
The real concerns include the cost issues, the one-size-fits-all mandate, and the failure of too many elementary schools to prepare larger numbers of students to perform at the requested level. A greater investment in early math education and structured requirements that lead to high-performance at the 8th grade level should be earlier steps, perhaps.