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| Incredible claims |
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| Written by Mark Davis / For the Tracy Press / | |
| Tuesday, 25 March 2008 | |
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A letter writer deconstructs the arguments of another opinion-page commentator.
Frank Aquila is without credibility as president of the Southern San Joaquin Republicans. His fall from grace began last summer with his suggestion that the Middle East is part of an end-times biblical fantasy. But he couldn’t stay focused on even that, as he used a debunked spam e-mail to make outrageous (and incorrect) claims in commentaries in other newspapers concerning the Social Security system and the Democratic Party. Unrepentant and determined to undermine his credibility further, he now claims (“Who is protecting America?” in Saturday’s Tracy Press) a perfect anti-terrorism record for the Bush administration that defies all logic, considering that Osama bin Laden is still at large, bombs have shredded Madrid and London, and we are into the sixth year of a war in Iraq that had no connection to the terrorism of 9/11.
Yes, Mr. Aquila, Saint Reagan abandoned Beirut. But Clinton shot hundreds of millions of dollars of cruise missiles at Osama after the 1998 embassy bombings, defying popular sentiment. The Clinton justice department also successfully prosecuted the World Trade Center bombings of 1993. Still, the Bush administration ignored 9/11 precursor reports and was insistent on a strategy of isolationism — at least until 9/11. How much longer will Frank undermine the credibility of the Republican Party with his fantastic claims?
— Mark Davis, Tracy
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...let the partisan bickering continue...but, please, could I get a viable voice to speak for the Republican Party?
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Mark, when you’ve finished hacking, here’s some grist from the other side
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John F Kerry- “I remember Christmas of 1968 sitting on a gunboat in Cambodia. I remember what it was like to be shot at by Vietnamese and Khmer Rouge and Cambodians, and have the president of the United States telling the American people that I was not there; the troops were not in Cambodia. I have that memory which is seared -- seared -- in me." Hillary Clinton- “I remember landing (at Tuzla) under sniper fire. There was no greeting ceremony and we basically were told to run to her cars. Now, that is what happened.” Harry Reid- “I believe ... that this war is lost, and this surge is not accomplishing anything, as is shown by the extreme violence in Iraq this week” Nancy Pelosi- State Department officials said Thursday they made it quite clear they did not want Pelosi to visit Syria, a nation that is listed as a state sponsor of terror and is home to terror group Hezbollah, which started a low-grade war with Israel last summer. Barack regarding his Pastor "…an old uncle who says things I don't always agree with." "I don't think my church is actually particularly controversial." “I made it clear at the time that I strongly condemned his comments. But because Rev. Wright was on the verge of retirement, and because of my strong links to the Trinity faith community, where I married my wife and where my daughters were baptized, I did not think it appropriate to leave the church.” Howard Dean- "You think people can work all day and then pick up their kids at child care or wherever and get home and still manage to sandwich in an eight-hour vote? Well Republicans, I guess can do that. Because a lot of them have never made an honest living in their lives." How much longer will you and your leaders undermine the credibility of the Democrat Party with your comments? report abuse
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Dale: I am not a Democrat, but I haven't heard anything from a local Democratic Party leader that is pure fear mongering, factually unbalanced in the pursuit of fear, claiming biblical end times are arriving, claiming conspiracies of the ACLU, misstating conspiratorial theories about Social Security, or any of the other fine ideas put forth regionally.
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When I do, I'll call them out. Of all your quotes, though, only the one by HRC is problematically untruthful, and only Howard Dean's is distinctly partisan. report abuse
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Uh Dale,
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"Pelosi's visit followed one by three congressmen from Bush's own party who also met with Syria's leaders." Link: http://www.iht.com/articles/ap...ria-US.php report abuse
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George W. Bush "Mission Accomplished"
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George Bush Sr. "Read my lips no new taxes" Richard Nixon "I am not a criminal" Dale Cose "I want Mrs. Bananas" report abuse
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Mark… you down as a lib Oh regionally… well glad to see we’ve narrowed it to locally because we sure don’t want National Leaders to be seen as ‘Looney Tunes’ Obama’s story about his relationship with his pastor continued to change as the pressure increased. The fear mongering comment you claim Mr. Aquila “factually unbalanced in the pursuit of fear,” were you disputing those events occurred? they occurred but not the way he stated? “and only Howard Dean's is distinctly partisan.” Because a lot of them (Republicans) have never made an honest living in their lives." A falsehood, with no matter how dress it, is still a lie. written by Mike , March 26, 2008 Uh Dale, "Pelosi's visit followed one by three congressmen from Bush's own party who also met with Syria's leaders." Uh Mike, your point would be that because Nancy did it, its okay for them to do it? written by Cose Watch , March 26, 2008 Dale Cose "I want Mrs. Bananas" Hi Tom. If you’re attributing the quote to me I laugh at your shabby attempt and pass gas in your general direction. report abuse
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Dale brings up an interesting suggestion about how accountable we should hold politicians for their past behavior. For instance, John McCain was censured for The Keating Five incident (and says now he really made a terrific mistake). He also has come full circle from declaring the Christian Right "agents of intolerance" to embracing John Hagee who claims homosexuals caused Katrina and is fervently anti-Catholic. He called the Bush tax cuts "immoral" but flipped over to supporting them now.
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At the same time we have HRC overstating the threat she experienced in Bosnia. I don't see such a pattern with Obama, but partly think that is largely due to his limited time in government. While those are interesting questions, none of this really bears on whether Frank Aquila is a liability to the local Republican Party. I happen to think he is and am horrified when I read some of the nonsense this guy produces. On the far left we get strange rantings from Code Pink, but the mainstream Democratic Party has never said anything like Frank has, especially not in regional politics. If anyone has some examples otherwise, I'd be interested in hearing about them! report abuse
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Actually Dale, Pelosi's visit followed that of republican leaders. I also happen to believe that the solution to the huge problem of terrorism will take more than military operations and tough talk. It will take some very creative diplomacy and aid programs to help give people, that would eventually find themselves being recruited by these organizations, reasons not to join.
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...
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written by Dale Cose , March 26, 2008 Hi Tom. If you’re attributing the quote to me I laugh at your shabby attempt and pass gas in your general direction. Dale it dosent matter which orifice you use the results are the same. Meaningless hot air. report abuse
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Well I see things started out well, but with the last comment, the personal insults have begun. Think I'll stay out of this one too. You enjoy!
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Mr Davis, are you 100% positive that Operation Iraqi Freedom had nothing to do with 9/11? Would you bet your freedoms on that statement? Do YOU (Mark Davis) have ALL of the facts? Do you have access to information that others do not? Also, since you have enjoyed your personal freedoms to express YOUR opinions, I shall now express mine. With a article written with such profound assumed wisdom, I am left wondering about whose side you really are on. Mine or the enemies. Lastly, are you really aware of all of the attempted terrorist attacks that were actually thwarted due to the deligence of the Department of Homeland Security? While you may be horrified of what Frank Aquila writes or says, I can't say I totally agree with your bombastic writings either.
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Ubbo: Fair enough. There is a wealth of information that shows little or no connection between Iraq and 9/11 terrorism, including the 9/11 commission report and extensive investigative reporting by the press. I don't doubt that the Bush administration has fought hard against terrorism, and there are certainly good examples of wins in that arena, I just don't see a clear connection between Republicanism and security because history doesn't bear that out.
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More to the point, why should we trust anything Frank Aquila writes when he has demonstrated outrageous religious mania and willful misuse of the facts in the past? As for the vague questioning of my patriotism, that's just as silly as your misapplication of the term bombastic. report abuse
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The term "bombastic" fits your diatribe perfectly. http://www.merriam-webster.com.../bombastic
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While we the ordinary private citizen may not have all of the knowledge that the Pentatgon or White House has, I do believe that the tragic events of 9/11 are tied to Operation Iraqi Freedom. To garnish even a small percentage of your knowledge from extensive investigative reporting is at best a weak attempt to carry on a half intelligent conversation with anyone. I ma sure that when the time is right, we will learn more. Right now is not the time to continue to expose our secrets and methods. As for the subject of your article, I have no intelligent opinion of Mr frank Aquila because I do not know him nor have I paid attention to his writings.I trust very little of what anyone writes unless they are some high level government official like that ones I worked with in Africa and in Iraq. Anything else is purely sensational work meant to pry on the weak and feeble minded. Thats my opinion. I don't trust the media, nor I do trust material that others get from the media. Pretty much narrows it down doesn't it? One thing I think is ignorant is when people refer President Reagan as "Saint Reagan". Perhaps Mr Aquila and you are both bombastic authors. So far you seem to have alot in common with each other. report abuse
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Ubbo: One would forsake of argument be perchance of one's mind in such an opinion, but hardly in a certain state of correctness :-)
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But seriously, it is rather ridiculous to hold that there is a secret universe unknown to every source of investigative pursuit, from Congress through intelligence service representatives, all who concur with the general conclusion that there was no relationship between Iraq and 9/11. Indeed, even Bush admitted as much as have all of his staff. So is he lying in his conclusions? report abuse
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written by Mark Davis , March 26, 2008 “… none of this really bears on whether Frank Aquila is a liability to the local Republican Party. I happen to think he is and am horrified when I read some of the nonsense this guy produces.” Mark, your concern for the ‘local’ Republican Party is touching. They have to figure out what they want to be. Mr. Aquila published a “fear mongering” list and the questions to you: were you disputing those events occurred? they occurred but not the way he stated? written by ?????????????????? , March 26, 2008 “Mike, Dale never lets facts influence his opinion.” “Dale it dosent matter which orifice you use the results are the same. Meaningless hot air.” Doesn’t your repetitious use of interrogation points give you the appearance of a higher IQ? Really short answer… no After having digested your drollery, your use of question marks defines your zenith. written by Mike , March 26, 2008 “Actually Dale, Pelosi's visit followed that of republican leaders. I also happen to believe that the solution to the huge problem of terrorism will take more than military operations and tough talk. It will take some very creative diplomacy and aid programs to help give people, that would eventually find themselves being recruited by these organizations, reasons not to join.” Before, during, after, we end up at the same place. The three Republican congressmen and Nancy Pelosi are not the Constitutional representatives of the U.S. If they want to help- go through the State Department. report abuse
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Mark read the book "Caught in Bill and Hillary's Cross Hairs". Democrats in action.
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While Bill was busy in the hen house the rooster (BinLaden) got loose. Enough said.
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Here you have Mark on the left and Frank on the right. Someday, can we just get an Independent who believes in small government with programs where people don't fall through the cracks?
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Dale: Shame, you're not living up to Scott's standards, again.
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Mark is right to say he is not a democrat.....
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what is it thats even farther to the left? thats what he is. a Whacko, "Tin-Foil-O-Crat". a, "Coo-Coo for CoCo Puffs" Leftist who Writes Hillarys Bosnia-under-fire History revisions..... Mark Says.."we are into the sixth year of a war in Iraq that had no connection to the terrorism of 9/11...De-bunked. he says,"The Clinton justice department also successfully prosecuted the World Trade Center bombings of 1993...absurd and also De-Bunked... he says, "Bush administration ignored 9/11 precursor reports ...also de-bunked. He also says,"There is a wealth of information that shows little or no connection between Iraq and 9/11 terrorism, including the 9/11 commission report...also debunked Mark Davis = BUNK. report abuse
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Keep up the good work!!You fools keep argueing with each other about small potatoes meenwhile the politicians are raking us over the coals.Your rights are being stripped away as well as your money.So your frustrated,as you should be!Get a clue ,its just what they want you to be so they can go on with buisiness as usual. People need to stop fighting with each other and look at who the real enemy is.
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Steve has his typically smelly bunk filled with conspiracy cheese puffs, but there is the broader question as to how we should handle information as adults (well, most of us). I bring this up because I read Susan Jacoby's recent book that called into question this tendency to treat everything through a partisan prism, from science to history to social policy. It wasn't always that way!
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In fact, I fully admit that there are many nuances built into the analysis of the build-up to 9/11 and the aftermath. Who wouldn't? Could the CIA worked more on the topic of terrorism in the 90s? Absolutely. Could the Clinton administration or the Bush administration have fully anticipated the magnitude of 9/11? Probably not. Could the military have done better to prepare for an Afghan theater of operations? Sure. Could the military have better prepared for the aftermath of the fall of Baghdad? It appears that way. Is there value in trying to reinterpret history to link Saddam to OBL? Not much. The take-away, though, is that polemics and conspiracy theories turn our arguments from gold into dross. I wasn't being polemical about Clinton's contributions, just balancing the claims of someone who was. report abuse
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President Bush and VP Cheney's plans are working perfectly. First Cheney met with Ken Lay and the other energy pirates and devised a scheme to bilk California and western rateppayers out of billions of dollars. Then they decide to make the big bucks for thier caimpaign contributers and start the Iraq War so Haliburton, Blackwater and all those good compaines could make billions along with the arms dealers. Their actions fueled global insecurity so petroleum prices could skyrocket and all the good ole boys could make lots of oil money. Meanwhile they got everybody arguing about wheter there were weapons of mass destrction in Iraq and who is a bigger idiot Hillary or Obama or Mcain. Great plan working to perfection.
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written by Mark Davis , March 27, 2008 "Dale: Shame, you're not living up to Scott's standards, again." Mark, for Christmas, I've asked St. Nicholas to gift to you a… ‘Reading comprehension for trigger-happy emoting progressive liberals’ A primer for those wetting their pants with a response before the dawn of understanding. written by Mark Davis , March 27, 2008 “Steve has his typically smelly bunk filled with conspiracy cheese puffs, but there is the broader question as to how we should handle information as adults (well, most of us).” It was a dark and stormy night, almost, but not quite, filled with a million apprehensions... “I bring this up because I read Susan Jacoby's recent book that called into question this tendency to treat everything through a partisan prism, from science to history to social policy. It wasn't always that way!” Ogg and Thag were getting ready for dinner. Ogg wanted to BBQ a recently oft Mammoth in a light red mud sauce. Thag wanted a more natural taste… raw, and objected to the evil yellow burning log thingy contributing to Global Warming during the Ice Age. Ogg killed Thag, roasted him, and enjoyed a spot of hairy long pork. Science… history… social policy As long as someone has a different point of view, life will be seen through a partisan prism It was always this way! report abuse
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Dale: I guess I don't see any argument or sense in that word soup other than the final claim that Susan Jacoby is wrong. Here history is better than yours, though, especially if you look at the post-WWII era.
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written by Mark Davis , March 27, 2008
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"It wasn't always that way!" def 1. always - at all times; all the time and on every occasion 2. always - without variation or change, in every case 3. always - without interruption 4. always - at any time or in any event 5. always - forever; throughout all time Glad to be of assistance Mark report abuse
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Dale: If I were as undiscriminating about trying to insult others as you are, I would recommend a reading comprehension primer :-)
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written by Mark Davis , March 27, 2008
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"Steve has his typically smelly bunk filled with conspiracy cheese puffs," Heh Heh report abuse
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Looking back at my original letter and the commentary that follows, here are some stabs at pulling this out of the nosedive into cunning lexical barb-arism:
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(1) Is the information claim factually accurate? (I assert that there were anti-terrorism activities under Clinton versus Aquila's original claim; whether it was adequate is a judgment call). (2) Is the information claim balanced with respect to arguments against it? (I assert that a strong claim of anti-terrorism successes of the Bush years needs to be considered against the obvious failures; that doesn't limit the claims concerning successes, but requires attention to the failures) (3) Is the information source reliable? (I suggest that a pattern of willful misrepresentation by Mr. Aquila as well as an unsober claim at biblical interpretation of Middle East events limits his reliability) report abuse
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It's certainly easy to be skeptical about the media(???)
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The whole build-up To the Iraq war was carried out by media events (and released through State Dept. officals). Evidenced by neocons ("architects") Bremmer, Wolfuwitz, Libby, Rove, Rumsfeld, Cheney and "spokespersons" from the Pentagon. Though, conversely, CIA(Tennant), NSA, and Commanders from CENT-COM. "couldn't connect the dots." Alas even (then) Sec. of Defense Powell warned, "Iraq was like a piece of crystal and would shatter into a thousand pieces," (arguing heatedly over deployment strategy against Rumsfeld's "light footprint in Iraq"). Are just waiting to tell us..? Is there some secret Templar Society and like unbridled children you'll at some future date release what it is we're "supposed to know?" Or is that you are simply trained to follow orders, not question them? report abuse
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written by Mark Davis , March 27, 2008 Dale: Like I say, I'm discriminating :-) Steve, Scott H, Ubbo, Scott C, Frank, Republicans (except mavericks (well, except McCain because he’s running)) the Right side, conservatives everywhere talk radio (except, Mark sighs, ah… Randy Rhodes… now she’s a hottie) the religious (but only the Church of God nutballs… well, what the heck, they’re all nutballs- throw them together too... ) whoa just a gosh durn minute here. Maybe we've uncovered something a little deeper… Maybe write the list the other way around… I don’t discriminate against- Liberals Progressives Socialists and Anarchists… sorry, atheists Dang, I got left off the short list… again report abuse
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Dale: I never insulted Randy Rhoads! That's a durn lie! Take it back! Still lost in the nightmare of formatting text, I see.
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written by Mark Davis , March 27, 2008 (1) Is the information claim factually accurate? (I assert that there were anti-terrorism activities under Clinton versus Aquila's original claim; whether it was adequate is a judgment call). Judgment- Wholly inadequate responses as evidenced by his administration’s failure to effectively deal with al Qaeda and the Taliban during two terms (2) Is the information claim balanced with respect to arguments against it? (I assert that a strong claim of anti-terrorism successes of the Bush years needs to be considered against the obvious failures; that doesn't limit the claims concerning successes, but requires attention to the failures) He will be judged by all on both the sucesses and failures (3) Is the information source reliable? (I suggest that a pattern of willful misrepresentation by Mr. Aquila as well as an unsober claim at biblical interpretation of Middle East events limits his reliability) Unsober claim… blood, breath, or urine test? Having read some of your ascertations does not lead me to believe all your utterences are deceitful. It is his belief… Bill of Rights report abuse
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Dale:
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"Wholly inadequate responses as evidenced by his administration’s failure to effectively deal with al Qaeda and the Taliban during two terms" Actually, it was a trade-off as Tenet has claimed. The Taliban were seen as a stabilizing influence in the Near East. Also, the CIA thought they were deeply involved in making war on terrorism throughout the time period. In fact, it was the CIA that had a plan for Afghanistan while the DOD did not. "Having read some of your ascertations does not lead me to believe all your utterences are deceitful." I think you might need a re-work of this. report abuse
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Like I said before you fools keep arguing George W. loves the cover. Let me know who wins Ha Ha
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written by Great Plan , March 27, 2008 President Bush and VP Cheney's plans are working perfectly. First Cheney met with Ken Lay and the other energy pirates and devised a scheme to bilk California and western rateppayers out of billions of dollars. Then they decide to make the big bucks for thier caimpaign contributers and start the Iraq War so Haliburton, Blackwater and all those good compaines could make billions along with the arms dealers. Their actions fueled global insecurity so petroleum prices could skyrocket and all the good ole boys could make lots of oil money. Meanwhile they got everybody arguing about wheter there were weapons of mass destrction in Iraq and who is a bigger idiot Hillary or Obama or Mcain. Great plan working to perfection. report abuse
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Dodging the random conspiracy theorist, a few additional data points are always useful. According Paul Pillar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_R._Pillar), head of Middle Eastern counter-terrorism during the 90s, the plot to assassinate Bush Sr. was uncorroborated but retaliated by Clinton in '93 with multiple cruise missile attacks against Iraqi Intelligence Services.
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Gee golly, that sound generally American and not strictly partisan at all. Therein lies the irony for folks who just can't spend the time to read the factual accounts of a long and complex war dating back to the late 80s but make partisan assumptions about anyway. That prism is fractured... report abuse
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